03-26-2025, 08:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2025, 10:49 PM by Super Milk Chan. Edited 7 times in total.)
Where am I to begin?
I will start by apologizing for my absence as the DDOS attacks on the forums made it imposable to connect as the website would time out every time for me. I'm no longer in Discord due to personal reasons, so news reaches me a lot slower if at all now days. As for this ban appeal I will break this up into two parts. Starting with the past, what has been said to me in private, and others’ views on the matter at the time. I would all so like to point out that what has been said to myself in private did not get recorded in anyway, as I do not consider words spoken outside of Dinks to be a Dinks matter, unless it was extreme such as harassment, leaking privet information etc. As such I request the small amount of private information released in this post not be used as a tool to enforce a ban, but to be used to paint a better pitcher of one’s character at this very moment. In part two I will simply go over the videos provided and point out the details from a perspective of long accumulated wisdom on the matter. Lastly, I would like to clarify that at no point is this post an attack on anyone be that staff, Fofab, Dink himself or passing community member.
Part one.
An important policy.
During my time as a staff member and my time as an admin. It had always been expressed by Unfortunatepossum, Ryzif, and Celllman that once you become skilled at detecting fine details that would indicate cheating or exploiting in a manner that is clear to once self or others who possess similar high skills. However, this is cursing a problem. Immediately after a ban has been applied, it is lightly that the user will proceed to make an urban request, you then have to argue the ban with the wider Dink community, and unlike some community bans where the reason needs to keep private to protect people, you will need to provide the evidence (this is what you have done). Even if you succeed at this there is still an important detail to the matter. That is how it affects the wider community. You may have the skill to identify exploiting, but if the evidence available is only sufficient for what is essentially an expert in the matter, then the community won’t necessarily understand, and will often only accept it on a base built on trust. That comes with negative consequences over time as every time you do this that trust gets weathered away, as community members who would otherwise be at your side will start to resent you and the staff team. As such it is policy to have sufficient evidence to convince the wider community without much of an argument.
Passing conversation with Fofab from before my time as staff.
What d33r is referring to is true. I heard about Fofab lowering their settings to gain an advantage over others. I proceeded to have a similar experience in own encounter with Fofab as he explained on some maps or in some rooms, only player props cast a shadow, he then explained in his next breath that “I put my settings waaaaay down so it’s like that on every map”. I will once again express that there is no recording of this, and it is just a claim made by myself at this point.
What is wrong with turning down your graphics to gain an advantage?
To put it simply. Ther is nothing wrong with doing this, and at no point has there ever been something wrong with this. However, that is just if you turn them down. You can only obtain a certain level of advantage by lowering your graphic settings, for this to become exploiting you must go beyond this and start using third party programs to lower the settings in, for example your NVIDIA Controle Panel beyond that the program itself will allow on its own. This is the point that you exit what is perfectly fine and begging to exploit as this will change how games will render, such as the shadows mentioned above. There are as many different and unique examples of how one may use this to gain an unfair advantage over others, as there are grains of sand that get stuck in my shoe after visiting the beach. There is evidence to support this claim, but not enough to be considered proof of wrongdoing. At the very least, not up until the point that I stepped down as staff.
An experienced player.
It is a simple fact that Fofab is the most experienced PropHunt player period. As such he has extensive knowledge on prop placement, how their props look normally vs when it is a player prop, and what exactly people can do with said props. Another part of the problem is the lack of new content. I noticed that Fofabs kill count drop on newly added maps that had not been played on the server before when I was adding new maps to the server as admin. He still racked up a lot of kills, but would you expect anything ells from what is simply one of the best players of all time? (Even though he will humble brag and say that he isn’t).
Dying when someone is watching.
This one simply comes someone who has watched Fofab closely over a long period of time. It does in fact seem to be the case when you first look at the matter. However, if you keep this behavior in mind when looking into this a lot deeper, you relies that it’s just a small map and he already did his round of the map and cannot be fucked to keep looking for the whole round. He all so does this on larger maps he does not like, but the behavior is not consistent across maps or days, as some days he will just do it no matter what the map is, and we could ask him why. However, we all have days where we need to get a million things done even during our down time, even if it’s just small stuff that takes a minute or two. As such there’s not actually evidence that Fofab is using a plugin that allows him to know that he is being spectated when you look at the bigger pitcher.
GUI anomaly.
This will happen for a long list of reasons, the most common of which happens when Chellman and I make out and make a mess. This mess has a powerful aura that fucks with things. (It means nothing in the spaghetti code now does as to much can be the root and not a lot of them are intentional.)
Part two
Video one.
0:18. A player saw will float off the ground a bit, you can notice this rather easily after playing the game mode for a bit. There are all so two of them in that room which is unseal. Lastly one of the saws clips into the couch a bit. A player saw would be pushing that away, as such it was clear what one to shoot.
0:28. Not complexly clearing the room before running off. This may seem odd to some, but sometimes running off in a direction early is a really good way to catch players off guard or find more in a shorter time. This is something even I do.
0:32. A quick bomb to check if someone is hiding as a pixel at the end of the slope, this is the most common spot for players to do this as people tend to look in the corner and spot them. Fofab knows this.
0:38. He never once liked this tiny map, so he blows himself up as stated above. This is supported by the fact that the dead Fofab camera does not move for some time as he lightly took this as an opportunity to do something IRL.
6:18. That’s not mic spam my brother, just an individual who’s a little on the louder side.
Video two.
0:03. You just don’t look normal, and people look around when moving.
0:19. This is one of the maps where the shadows are different for players, especially in the four room. That room is well known for that very problem.
0:28. The bag as a player sticks out as a sore thumb as it all ways sit in a way that defies gravity. All so the player did not use the F4 menu to change into that prop, you can tell by the bag next to the player being moved from its original spot, yet another thing that will stick out to an old player on such a focal of a map.
0:36. Too many chairs, he did not even get it right the first time.
1:40. As stated above. He has checked over the whole map, and it’s one of the oldest maps on the server. Again, he is probably a bit bored.
Video tree.
0:22. The player cigarette cartridge looks similar to the others but is not lined up right.
1:24. We don’t know what happened with the kills as there was no footage.
2:09. This is in fact an odd one. However, it is not a scratch that says that he may know to position, and orientation of the coffee mugs off by heart, such as the coffee mugs not showing up on the shelves at all. (I just checked it is in fact an item that never spawns on the shelves.)
4:23. Again a small map and it done looking.
5:31. He just shot the books off the shelf at 5:16 and it is not normal for a book to ever land upright on the ground like that. If you look closely at the blue book, it is close but still leaning over, this may be way it took him a second before fulling the trigger.
5:44. Too many of the wrong box, it sticks out as obvious that something is not right, he then killed the second box in one hit before releasing the first one did no damage as well and provided to kill the player. I don’t know if you have ever noticed, but sometimes it takes a moment to update the damage you suffer after hitting the wrong object. As such this comes off a normal to me.
6:29. Quick and easy way to check the corners you can clip into.
7:13. Checking another common spot to clip into the mesh.
7:26. Checks another common spot to clip into the mesh. All so gag the dick head farting into the mic over and over at this point.
7:54. Again he is checking a spot people like to mesh clip into. Another thing to note is that at 6:34 you can hear Fofab try and fail to use the SMG’s grenade out of habit for this very same spot. He was not avoiding it, it was on his mind and proceeded to check again with another bomb from the RPG after possibly getting more rounds from picking up the random orb at 7:42, when there was no longer a user inspecting the bags. (it’s hard to tell with the orb as there is no ammo indicator, but something you need to keep in mind when judging this sort of thing.)
8:40. It took him a moment to notice, but that is not a normal spot for a cigarette cartridge, and it even started running.
Video four.
0:30. If I recall right, the hit box for blood to come out on stuff like the ice machine is massive, and you can check basically every large object you can become in the corner by just shooting the wall and looking for blood without losing any HP. It can all so just be a miss click, but I don't see it being tied to anything at this time. Not a lot to this video all together.
Conclusion.
I am someone who supported the idea of Fofab exploding, even if it’s only a little. However, I have always kept myself true to the policy set by my favorite administrator team that came before me. There is currently insufficient evidence to support a ban in the face of the community. The evidence provided in this post only weakens the argument that he is exploiting, and as such he should not be banned.
Input going forward.
Again, please don’t take this in an offensive way, as you know how much I respect you and everyone on the staff team. However, this is one of the reasons I did not support your application for Admin. It’s not about doing the task that is staffing, it’s about taking a step back and considering what exactly are the rules, how can they be used the wrong way, and how can I fox them. Take a step back and get more detailed about your actions, let lower staff take load of more coarse actions to handle the larger loads that don’t require as much depth.
Edit: I realized that there are four videos, and I have updated the list. This is why you don’t turn in an essay you only spent 40 minutes on.
I will start by apologizing for my absence as the DDOS attacks on the forums made it imposable to connect as the website would time out every time for me. I'm no longer in Discord due to personal reasons, so news reaches me a lot slower if at all now days. As for this ban appeal I will break this up into two parts. Starting with the past, what has been said to me in private, and others’ views on the matter at the time. I would all so like to point out that what has been said to myself in private did not get recorded in anyway, as I do not consider words spoken outside of Dinks to be a Dinks matter, unless it was extreme such as harassment, leaking privet information etc. As such I request the small amount of private information released in this post not be used as a tool to enforce a ban, but to be used to paint a better pitcher of one’s character at this very moment. In part two I will simply go over the videos provided and point out the details from a perspective of long accumulated wisdom on the matter. Lastly, I would like to clarify that at no point is this post an attack on anyone be that staff, Fofab, Dink himself or passing community member.
Part one.
An important policy.
During my time as a staff member and my time as an admin. It had always been expressed by Unfortunatepossum, Ryzif, and Celllman that once you become skilled at detecting fine details that would indicate cheating or exploiting in a manner that is clear to once self or others who possess similar high skills. However, this is cursing a problem. Immediately after a ban has been applied, it is lightly that the user will proceed to make an urban request, you then have to argue the ban with the wider Dink community, and unlike some community bans where the reason needs to keep private to protect people, you will need to provide the evidence (this is what you have done). Even if you succeed at this there is still an important detail to the matter. That is how it affects the wider community. You may have the skill to identify exploiting, but if the evidence available is only sufficient for what is essentially an expert in the matter, then the community won’t necessarily understand, and will often only accept it on a base built on trust. That comes with negative consequences over time as every time you do this that trust gets weathered away, as community members who would otherwise be at your side will start to resent you and the staff team. As such it is policy to have sufficient evidence to convince the wider community without much of an argument.
Passing conversation with Fofab from before my time as staff.
What d33r is referring to is true. I heard about Fofab lowering their settings to gain an advantage over others. I proceeded to have a similar experience in own encounter with Fofab as he explained on some maps or in some rooms, only player props cast a shadow, he then explained in his next breath that “I put my settings waaaaay down so it’s like that on every map”. I will once again express that there is no recording of this, and it is just a claim made by myself at this point.
What is wrong with turning down your graphics to gain an advantage?
To put it simply. Ther is nothing wrong with doing this, and at no point has there ever been something wrong with this. However, that is just if you turn them down. You can only obtain a certain level of advantage by lowering your graphic settings, for this to become exploiting you must go beyond this and start using third party programs to lower the settings in, for example your NVIDIA Controle Panel beyond that the program itself will allow on its own. This is the point that you exit what is perfectly fine and begging to exploit as this will change how games will render, such as the shadows mentioned above. There are as many different and unique examples of how one may use this to gain an unfair advantage over others, as there are grains of sand that get stuck in my shoe after visiting the beach. There is evidence to support this claim, but not enough to be considered proof of wrongdoing. At the very least, not up until the point that I stepped down as staff.
An experienced player.
It is a simple fact that Fofab is the most experienced PropHunt player period. As such he has extensive knowledge on prop placement, how their props look normally vs when it is a player prop, and what exactly people can do with said props. Another part of the problem is the lack of new content. I noticed that Fofabs kill count drop on newly added maps that had not been played on the server before when I was adding new maps to the server as admin. He still racked up a lot of kills, but would you expect anything ells from what is simply one of the best players of all time? (Even though he will humble brag and say that he isn’t).
Dying when someone is watching.
This one simply comes someone who has watched Fofab closely over a long period of time. It does in fact seem to be the case when you first look at the matter. However, if you keep this behavior in mind when looking into this a lot deeper, you relies that it’s just a small map and he already did his round of the map and cannot be fucked to keep looking for the whole round. He all so does this on larger maps he does not like, but the behavior is not consistent across maps or days, as some days he will just do it no matter what the map is, and we could ask him why. However, we all have days where we need to get a million things done even during our down time, even if it’s just small stuff that takes a minute or two. As such there’s not actually evidence that Fofab is using a plugin that allows him to know that he is being spectated when you look at the bigger pitcher.
GUI anomaly.
This will happen for a long list of reasons, the most common of which happens when Chellman and I make out and make a mess. This mess has a powerful aura that fucks with things. (It means nothing in the spaghetti code now does as to much can be the root and not a lot of them are intentional.)
Part two
Video one.
0:18. A player saw will float off the ground a bit, you can notice this rather easily after playing the game mode for a bit. There are all so two of them in that room which is unseal. Lastly one of the saws clips into the couch a bit. A player saw would be pushing that away, as such it was clear what one to shoot.
0:28. Not complexly clearing the room before running off. This may seem odd to some, but sometimes running off in a direction early is a really good way to catch players off guard or find more in a shorter time. This is something even I do.
0:32. A quick bomb to check if someone is hiding as a pixel at the end of the slope, this is the most common spot for players to do this as people tend to look in the corner and spot them. Fofab knows this.
0:38. He never once liked this tiny map, so he blows himself up as stated above. This is supported by the fact that the dead Fofab camera does not move for some time as he lightly took this as an opportunity to do something IRL.
6:18. That’s not mic spam my brother, just an individual who’s a little on the louder side.
Video two.
0:03. You just don’t look normal, and people look around when moving.
0:19. This is one of the maps where the shadows are different for players, especially in the four room. That room is well known for that very problem.
0:28. The bag as a player sticks out as a sore thumb as it all ways sit in a way that defies gravity. All so the player did not use the F4 menu to change into that prop, you can tell by the bag next to the player being moved from its original spot, yet another thing that will stick out to an old player on such a focal of a map.
0:36. Too many chairs, he did not even get it right the first time.
1:40. As stated above. He has checked over the whole map, and it’s one of the oldest maps on the server. Again, he is probably a bit bored.
Video tree.
0:22. The player cigarette cartridge looks similar to the others but is not lined up right.
1:24. We don’t know what happened with the kills as there was no footage.
2:09. This is in fact an odd one. However, it is not a scratch that says that he may know to position, and orientation of the coffee mugs off by heart, such as the coffee mugs not showing up on the shelves at all. (I just checked it is in fact an item that never spawns on the shelves.)
4:23. Again a small map and it done looking.
5:31. He just shot the books off the shelf at 5:16 and it is not normal for a book to ever land upright on the ground like that. If you look closely at the blue book, it is close but still leaning over, this may be way it took him a second before fulling the trigger.
5:44. Too many of the wrong box, it sticks out as obvious that something is not right, he then killed the second box in one hit before releasing the first one did no damage as well and provided to kill the player. I don’t know if you have ever noticed, but sometimes it takes a moment to update the damage you suffer after hitting the wrong object. As such this comes off a normal to me.
6:29. Quick and easy way to check the corners you can clip into.
7:13. Checking another common spot to clip into the mesh.
7:26. Checks another common spot to clip into the mesh. All so gag the dick head farting into the mic over and over at this point.
7:54. Again he is checking a spot people like to mesh clip into. Another thing to note is that at 6:34 you can hear Fofab try and fail to use the SMG’s grenade out of habit for this very same spot. He was not avoiding it, it was on his mind and proceeded to check again with another bomb from the RPG after possibly getting more rounds from picking up the random orb at 7:42, when there was no longer a user inspecting the bags. (it’s hard to tell with the orb as there is no ammo indicator, but something you need to keep in mind when judging this sort of thing.)
8:40. It took him a moment to notice, but that is not a normal spot for a cigarette cartridge, and it even started running.
Video four.
0:30. If I recall right, the hit box for blood to come out on stuff like the ice machine is massive, and you can check basically every large object you can become in the corner by just shooting the wall and looking for blood without losing any HP. It can all so just be a miss click, but I don't see it being tied to anything at this time. Not a lot to this video all together.
Conclusion.
I am someone who supported the idea of Fofab exploding, even if it’s only a little. However, I have always kept myself true to the policy set by my favorite administrator team that came before me. There is currently insufficient evidence to support a ban in the face of the community. The evidence provided in this post only weakens the argument that he is exploiting, and as such he should not be banned.
Input going forward.
Again, please don’t take this in an offensive way, as you know how much I respect you and everyone on the staff team. However, this is one of the reasons I did not support your application for Admin. It’s not about doing the task that is staffing, it’s about taking a step back and considering what exactly are the rules, how can they be used the wrong way, and how can I fox them. Take a step back and get more detailed about your actions, let lower staff take load of more coarse actions to handle the larger loads that don’t require as much depth.
Edit: I realized that there are four videos, and I have updated the list. This is why you don’t turn in an essay you only spent 40 minutes on.
![[Image: GgEBG5ebYAM3blm?format=jpg&name=large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GgEBG5ebYAM3blm?format=jpg&name=large)