[voidzz]

i think it's pretty unprofessional for a staff member to respond in the way jawa was responded to, looks like opposite of what staff are generally supposed to be like imo. a simple conversation or explanation rather than antagonizing would've probably simplified things here, harassment warn is the fattest stretch i've seen lol, +1 for removal of harassment warn

[Damien]

The harassment warn could be changed to a flaming warn, but either way he would've hit the threshold for a ban.

[duan - no burger]

shits dumb especially with the context of the whole situation and everything else going on at that time. I deserved my warn/ban, but I feel like Jawa didn't deserve to be treated the way he was and used as an example. And I can understand why he got heated but it happens to everyone sometimes. This guy plays all the time and the server seems to be going in a weird way recently, idk man shits just dumb and stupid drama over the littlest thing. I know don't got much say or respect here for shit like this but I really feel like a reduction should happen for Jawa here. +1 unban/reduction

[jax]

British people shouldn’t be given leniency. It’s an American server with the predominate player base being American. In the USA “Odd Fellow” is a slur. I can’t help but think you’re being a little facetious with your “but it’s not a slur in the UK!”. When in Rome act like the Romans do.

On top of that, when has PMing or DMing an staff ever worked in anyone’s favor? Even if you’re justified in your frustration, DMing the person who you claim to be “ban happy” doesn’t seem like the smart thing to do.

Damien followed guidelines and warned you. Technically, he did his job cut and dry.

That being said, it seems ridiculous that we’re warning people for slurs when there’s a model in-game that has “efag” written on it. I think it would be fair to remove the model and remove the warns. It seems hypocritical of staff to allow that vape in the game, while handing out punishments for the same thing.

I don’t think Damien is really mature enough for tMod and I think the reoccurring abuse threads / complaints threads about him highlight this. I don’t think his reply / reaction to you was very appropriate. However, it’s pretty obvious you’re 95% at fault.

Overall, +1 for remove of warn and unban on the premise that it seems wild to be warning people for something the staff have allowed in game (the model).

[tiefling lesbian]

British people shouldn’t be given leniency. It’s an American server with the predominate player base being American. In the USA “Odd Fellow” is a slur. I can’t help but think you’re being a little facetious with your “but it’s not a slur in the UK!”. When in Rome act like the Romans do.

On top of that, when has PMing or DMing an staff ever worked in anyone’s favor? Even if you’re justified in your frustration, DMing the person who you claim to be “ban happy” doesn’t seem like the smart thing to do.

Damien followed guidelines and warned you. Technically, he did his job cut and dry.

That being said, it seems ridiculous that we’re warning people for slurs when there’s a model in-game that has “efag” written on it. I think it would be fair to remove the model and remove the warns. It seems hypocritical of staff to allow that vape in the game, while handing out punishments for the same thing.

I don’t think Damien is really mature enough for tMod and I think the reoccurring abuse threads / complaints threads about him highlight this. I don’t think his reply / reaction to you was very appropriate. However, it’s pretty obvious you’re 95% at fault.

Overall, +1 for remove of warn and unban on the premise that it seems wild to be warning people for something the staff have allowed in game (the model).

none of the staff involved (or pretty much anyone below admin) have the power to remove or change the vape
I think the texture should be edited or the vape removed but it being there doesn't make slurs allowed

[Sweet Banana]

I am +1 for a full unban. After finding out that there is actually an item on the server called an “e-Odd Fellow”, I don’t really think it’s fair to give out warnings without knowing context. Jawa wasn’t calling anyone the f-slur or being malicious. He wasn’t slur baiting. He was simply asking about it. And before you clip this and respond to it, I know it’s the server rules. I know it’s a slur. We all do. Half of us have been warned for saying it. Stop beating it into the ground. I think that context is important in this situation. Stop acting like it’s a race to immediately mute gag and warn people. There is no employee of the month plaque to win. I do believe now though that the vape should be renamed or removed if none of us are allowed to even say what it is.

[EpicGuy]

I was going to continue lurking but this made me come out of hiding. There's been a lot of stupidity going on recently, but this might take the cake in stupidness.

People have basically said what I was going to say already, but Jawa being British shouldn't fully excuse him for saying the word, but there's got to be some context here. The word that has everyone up in arms, the word that got a player banned from the server, is on display for anyone to see and use/equip in-game. It's not like Jawa randomly and without cause said the word. He said the word in reference to an item that is on our server. An item that, to my knowledge, no one was upset about or brought to the attention of staff. If the item was brought up to the attention of staff, that's a totally different conversation to have. I haven't seen the item so I don't know where the word is on the vape, but I feel like a player would have brought it up to staff (they bring everything else up)

Like someone else said (I think. If not, I'm bringing it up), why is it okay for someone to say the n-word with an 'A' at the end, but not okay for someone to say what Jawa said? What is the difference? One word is racist, but is "cleaned up" by changing the suffix. Wow! How nice! The other word is derogatory and is used by a group of people (that Jawa belongs to) that describes a cigarette. Both words can offend people. But one is okay because we changed 2 letters and the other isn't? Ridiculous. Either all derogatory words are not allowed or derogatory words are allowed. There shouldn't be a gray area.

Next, I'd like to talk about the harassment claims. Damien told Jawa to stop messaging him and Jawa should have stopped. That's something we learn in elementary school. Damien, you know I like you, but if you felt harassed by what Jawa said, I've got some bad news for you: you're going to hear worse on the server and in real life. I've probably been called every name under the sun by chucklenuggets during my tenure as staff. You know what I've rarely, if ever, done? Told them to stop harassing me. Why? Because the words some idiot say to you on the Internet---some idiot that you don't know, will never meet, and shouldn't care about---shouldn't cause you that much grief that it affects you negatively. Tell that pissed-on fire hydrant to piss off and if they keep running their mouths (or their fingers), gag/mute them, then ignore them. If, after that, they continue to be belligerent to you, then there's a case for harassment. But not after a one-off interaction with a player who is questioning why they were punished.

I know everyone is different and tolerates things differently, but the things that Jawa said to Damien are spicy at best, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that he's talking about being warned for saying a word that's in the game. To appease Jawa, you could have explained why you gave him the warning and not told him to "message bryan or shut up." If someone PMs me with a question about why I did something to them, I take the time to answer them. If they're still being belligerent or not understanding, then telling them to go to the forums or to an admin would be fine. Not just sending them to an admin with no explanation of why you did what you did. This probably could've been handled inside the server, and 5 pages of crap (that I'm now adding to) didn't need to be made

Slightly unrelated, has anyone else noticed the fun being slowly sucked out of the server? I submit to you that it's because there's been a slow and subtle shift to trying to shoehorn something that someone doesn't like into some stupid rule we have. Someone said something off-color to me that's probably a joke but I don't like the person? THAT'S HARASSMENT!!!! Someone says a joke that didn't land over the Internet but probably would have landed in real life but we don't know how that person thinks because we don't know that person outside of the 1-4 hours a day we play on the server? PERMAGAG THEM, PUT THEM ON A WATCHLIST WITH A 10 POINT WARNING, AND BAN THEM, ALL AT ONCE!!!!!!! Why can't we just have fun? This online server is supposed to be a distraction from the crap going on in our lives. I don't want to deal with the crap happening in real life on the server. Let people relax (that's not a license for people to do whatever they want) and give people grace. The same grace that you'd be asking for if you screwed up. And most importantly, just like in real life, if someone is giving you a hard time and you don't want to deal with it anymore, walk away/disconnect. The bad person can't follow you if you're gone.

TL;DR: +1 for a complete unban. Remove the harassment warn, and remove this slur warn

[(DEMON)Skullfire]

I have to agree with what EpicGuy stated. Damien, this was nothing compared to what others have been through for harassment, myself included. I feel this whole thing was taken outta proportion and now have evolved into this giant forums post. Now just because I don’t agree with how Damien handled this situation does not mean I think Jawa should’ve said what he did but then you have the point that EpicGuy brought up. We can say some slurs but not all makes no sense and Jawa was not referring to the word in a malicious way. I have never had an issue with Jawa personally so to see him get banned and all this go down over a potential slur is crazy. I am +1 for full unban and removal of any warns distributed. This should have been handled much differently.

[Damien]

The thing is that I did explain it to him on the map prior, I explained it to him when I gave him the warn. I shouldn't have to repeat myself 100 times to someone who isn't gonna listen. And again, the harassment warn will probably be changed to a flaming warn since that is what he did. He kept messaging me after I told him to talk to bryanbrr about it but he refused to. I also genuinely only see this situation as one of the fuck ups compared to the last 2 threads since it probably should've been a flaming warn, but yet again it would've got them 8 points regardless. I don't think removing the slur warn is going to do the staff team any favors since it's going to allow for people to slur bait with the word. We don't allow the British slang version of the word anyways and allowing it for this one instance is just silly imo. It's always been an insta warn and I've had to explain to a couple of brits that it is a warnable word here. Jawa should've known not to say it since he has been playing here for a year and that's why I warned. 

[Jawa]

I've had a boring day of work so I'm calm and sad, I want to add my final statement your honoUr before the final verdict (thanks for everyone so far for understanding).

1. My anger at the warn wasn't because I was Bri'ish, me being British wasn't more why I was super alarmed and hearing the conversation going on about it, add to that that both Damien and 2 other mod's were not calming or warning people verbally during the conversation gave me the implication that a word that's in the game, on a usable Vape, and altered slightly, was not an issue. 
1a. My anger was that it was a straight instan-warn, when the day before this, you Damien gave a verbal warning to someone who wrote Nig Nog on a wall (during the Hang Man game), no gag, no mute, no Instant Warn, a verbal warning. I personally do not believe Efslur is worse or as criminal as writing Nig Nog on a wall during a game, but in my mind that's the Damien I expected to experience for my blunder, not the instant warn and "shut up" Damien I got.

2. My harrasment/flaming was anything but, I restricted myself very much so that I would not be personal or let my anger act a fool, what I wanted was an explanation as to why Damien could one moment act chill and the next strike me down with warns with no conversation and any attempt to talk to him resulting in him saying "shut uuuup", "stop talking or i'll warn you". You are expecting me to be trolled and laughed at in complete silence (which I did), and not to let the person responsible understand how I was feeling.

2a. If this server thinks me getting things off my chest for less then a minute after being antagonized is worthy of a 8 Point Warn, then I have nothing else to say in general, it seems incredibly toxic and unfair that a staff member can warn, gloat about warning you, threaten you with further punishment if you mention it again, and then quickly say "stop talking to me talk to bryan" as a way to avoid any reprucussions, he's Staff, he should know better then me at talking things out. 

3. For those who think I deserve the warns because of my past warns, the first Warning I got was my 3rd day on the sever when a lovely young unamed Jewish player after learning I was from Britain asked me how would I ask for a cigarette in bri'ish, I said "oi mate can i have a fslur", that was my first warn, fresh baby on the server, not me being toxic, but me not knowing the server well enough yet.
3a. The second warning both Damien and Nazu have said they don't know why I was given it (nazu gave it), and that originally I had to ask Damien permission for it to be gone, Damien said it was Nazu who gave it so he needed the permission, I went back to Nazu and he told me to ask Bryan, when Bryan was in a game I asked him but with no response (in hindsight I should've done a Unwarn Request or contacted over Discord). 

I can live with being warned for Efslur, even though people have said much worse vindictively and its played off as a joke and no warns, I can live with this, but a ban for expressing my Displeasure at the person behind my warn after treating me like a dick, thats to far for me, I wasn't attacking an innocent person who calmy discussed my concerns with, I was shouting back at someone who for 2 games acted smug and making edgy jokes of your own (you also tried bitching about me thinking I wasn't in the server until Ellie Mae told you I was, I didn't blow up at you then, I showed restraint brother, it was only after Duan I couldn't let you off). 

Other: Pls don't ban, I've tried the other servers, Verkon or whatever is a mess, Gmod Network has gang bangers who keep talking about who has "the strap", and the EU servers are miserable and no one talks.