[bunniey]

Format

Offender's Name: loocan, Crab Nickelson™®

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:1:67771757 , STEAM_0:0:45060787

Potential Witnesses: @KaptainLes @"dirty shitposter" @TDawg4 @Quaxi Girl @JesseTheUndeadCowboy , several more people

Reason to Ban: Blatant teaming, Crab rez'd lycan, neither killed each other for a long amount of time, and Lycan saw crab do several things.

Proof: https://streamable.com/a959z9

---

I should note, thought I wasn't streaming and can't confirm, but they went another hot minute in the stairwell together, Lycan saw him flare gun someone, it was very obvious, witness testimony is all I have on the rest of it but I think the initial video is plenty.

[bryanbrr]

I want to hear what Crab and Lycan have to say on this issue. It's not uncommon to see T's defib Inno's to purposely kill again for fun but, with the logs showing Crab killing his own T buddy after Lycan is killed points to me that this was in fact teaming. I would like to see if there is anymore video evidence but, this clearly does look like teaming from the evidence provided.

[Chris Farley]

I was here too why didnt you tag me wtf

[milk (2)]

do u have any other videos or...?

[bunniey]

do u have any other videos or...?

@TDawg4 does I believe, I do not

[TDawg4]

Yeah I do.
https://streamable.com/iskq7g

[dong]

Would like to read some type of defense as this will cause issues either way

[La Flama Blanca]

First of all, I'd like to disclose that I am biased in my response. I am friends with Lycan, been playing with him for 5 years, and previously served as a Moderator alongside him. 

The first point I'd like to raise is that the punishments for teaming are far in excess of what I think is appropriate. Per the staff guidelines which are available to everyone, the first punishment for teaming is 2 weeks. The examples of teaming provided are:

• • Innocent players refusing to kill a completely obvious traitor that has done many traitorous things in front of them and is ignoring it. This is teaming.
    
  • Defibbing innos as a T. This is teaming.
    
  • Purposely letting innos in the T room, this is a form of teaming and is slayable.
    

Of these three examples, I really only think one should remain as it is written. That would be the last one, where a traitor purposely lets an innocent into the T room. The other two are far too broad, in my opinion. I really think they should be amended to create a more specific "bad faith" requirement. Instances where defibbing an innocent friend as a traitor or choosing not to immediately kill them despite knowledge of them being a traitor is generally not done in an effort to ruin the game. Rather, it's usually done as a way to make the game more fun for oneself or their friend. And it doesn't necessarily cause a direct interruption to the gameplay. For a traitor defibbing an innocent, I believe that this needs to be accompanied by evidence showing that the revived innocent disrupted the gameplay - evidence of this may include them killing the traitor buddies of the reviving traitor in the middle of the round. Innocents refusing to kill an obvious traitor is just far too open to interpretation, in my opinion, to be sustained as an example of teaming. In fact, it may even encourage RDM. 

Now the evidence currently provided is fairly sparse for me to come to an opinion on the alleged teaming here, but I can offer a few general points. The videos of Crab and Lycan that have been provided thus far do not appear to demonstrate any disruption to the game. Yes, it appears Lycan was revived by Crab and chose not to kill him. Yes, Lycan appears to have brought a body bomb towards a traitor at the end of the round. This was at the end of the round, and even if Lycan was the one who mashed that E button on the bomb-rigged body, any disruption to the game was minimal. The round ended and the traitors won. The outcome was not changed and no one had their T round ruined.

Since I believe this ban request may try to include evidence beyond this alleged teaming, I'll also provide a general defense of Lycan. Lycan enjoys messing around on the server, and admittedly goes too far from time to time, like with the use of slurs. I know his actions might irritate some, but I generally find them to be harmless. I mean the encouragement of the "ASAB" stuff was never really a problem, in my opinion. As with all the memes, it has basically died out. Any of the other stuff which I'm aware of isn't really a big deal either. I've been here for years now and I can generally recognize "toxicity" pretty quickly. And there is a clear difference between what Lycan does and what truly "toxic" individuals do. From a player standpoint, Lycan is a respected and appreciated member of the community and has been so for years now. Very active on the Discord and the TTT server, he has many friends here and is the butt and originator of many long-running jokes. Sure, he may mess around but I have also seen him be quite helpful to ordinary players as well. This may be linked to his past as a staff member, where he reached the rank of Moderator. 

TL;DR: This is not malicious (disruptive to gameplay) teaming and shouldn't be punished as such. Lycan is a decent guy. 

[Salty]

I don't think they should be banned; after watching the evidence presented, it just is too vague to reach a conclusion that it caused any issues in game. Traitors still won that round, so the only way I'd see it as an issue is if the innocents had won that round. 


-1 on a Ban.

EDIT: I did NOT see the link TDawg posted before making this comment, that is my mistake. There is definitely evidence to support that teaming exists; based on the rules, what Lycan and Crab did is technically teaming; however, I want to note that I think that there should be revisit as to what constitutes teaming, and separate severe from moderate, sort of like ghosting, but that is for another time.

According to our current rules, I'm going to have to say that it's a +1.

[thunderwalrusinnthebar]

First of all, I'd like to disclose that I am biased in my response. I am friends with Lycan, been playing with him for 5 years, and previously served as a Moderator alongside him. 

The first point I'd like to raise is that the punishments for teaming are far in excess of what I think is appropriate. Per the staff guidelines which are available to everyone, the first punishment for teaming is 2 weeks. The examples of teaming provided are:

• • Innocent players refusing to kill a completely obvious traitor that has done many traitorous things in front of them and is ignoring it. This is teaming.
    
  • Defibbing innos as a T. This is teaming.
    
  • Purposely letting innos in the T room, this is a form of teaming and is slayable.
    

Of these three examples, I really only think one should remain as it is written. That would be the last one, where a traitor purposely lets an innocent into the T room. The other two are far too broad, in my opinion. I really think they should be amended to create a more specific "bad faith" requirement. Instances where defibbing an innocent friend as a traitor or choosing not to immediately kill them despite knowledge of them being a traitor is generally not done in an effort to ruin the game. Rather, it's usually done as a way to make the game more fun for oneself or their friend. And it doesn't necessarily cause a direct interruption to the gameplay. For a traitor defibbing an innocent, I believe that this needs to be accompanied by evidence showing that the revived innocent disrupted the gameplay - evidence of this may include them killing the traitor buddies of the reviving traitor in the middle of the round. Innocents refusing to kill an obvious traitor is just far too open to interpretation, in my opinion, to be sustained as an example of teaming. In fact, it may even encourage RDM. 

Now the evidence currently provided is fairly sparse for me to come to an opinion on the alleged teaming here, but I can offer a few general points. The videos of Crab and Lycan that have been provided thus far do not appear to demonstrate any disruption to the game. Yes, it appears Lycan was revived by Crab and chose not to kill him. Yes, Lycan appears to have brought a body bomb towards a traitor at the end of the round. This was at the end of the round, and even if Lycan was the one who mashed that E button on the bomb-rigged body, any disruption to the game was minimal. The round ended and the traitors won. The outcome was not changed and no one had their T round ruined.

Since I believe this ban request may try to include evidence beyond this alleged teaming, I'll also provide a general defense of Lycan. Lycan enjoys messing around on the server, and admittedly goes too far from time to time, like with the use of slurs. I know his actions might irritate some, but I generally find them to be harmless. I mean the encouragement of the "ASAB" stuff was never really a problem, in my opinion. As with all the memes, it has basically died out. Any of the other stuff which I'm aware of isn't really a big deal either. I've been here for years now and I can generally recognize "toxicity" pretty quickly. And there is a clear difference between what Lycan does and what truly "toxic" individuals do. From a player standpoint, Lycan is a respected and appreciated member of the community and has been so for years now. Very active on the Discord and the TTT server, he has many friends here and is the butt and originator of many long-running jokes. Sure, he may mess around but I have also seen him be quite helpful to ordinary players as well. This may be linked to his past as a staff member, where he reached the rank of Moderator. 

TL;DR: This is not malicious (disruptive to gameplay) teaming and shouldn't be punished as such. Lycan is a decent guy. 

If you look at it from the innocents point of view it is disruptive. If I am innocent I want the innocents to win, Lycan had the opportunity to kill a t or at least kos them and chose not to. Lycan being a past staff member should mean he knows the rules. He does know the rules and he broke one here. I believe that if this was a guest he or she would have been banned already. Crab is also a long time member of the community and should also be aware of the rules, which I believe he is.