[ratty]

oh sorry forgot that people don't have keyboards you're so right

terrible argument...

Not really. If the mic was such an integral part of the game, then people without mics / people who don't use mics would not be allowed to play on the server. We have plenty of prevalent players such as: i am a noober, fanta, flare, adam, nick who do not use mics and are successful players. There are binds that exists.

Communication is not diminished when players can not speak over the mic.

So yes. You should just gag people. Though, in this instance the majority of the server was fine with the soundboard.

What's the real 'terrible argument' is dishing out permabans for situations like this.

your argument is literally that everyone should have to accommodate for Timbo because he wants to spam shitty memes on the server everyday.....

The reading comprehension in this thread is abysmal. My argument is one that many people on the server share, this should not be a perma-bannable offense. Really has nothing to do with Timbo, else I would have made a thread specifically catered to Timbo. This is specifically for the rewriting of the rules.

---

Im in favor for officially allowing soundboards on the server, im a pretty lenient mod I literally let people play sound clips all the time, but perma banning is necessary for instances like timbo, who is a long time offender with a grocery list of warnings and multiple instances of purposely baiting staff and wasting their time....we should allow soundboards but the standard micspam rules will still have to apply, if it's constantly interrupting the gameplay/ annoying players then it should not be allowed.

[jax]

Nobody is permabanned for using a soundboard. People are permabanned for multiple stacking offenses over the course of time. If you are using a soundboard consistently after multiple warnings, you will be banned to escalate the issue. This continues until the problem is resolved. Micspam is and always will be against the rules. 

When no one in the server is complaining, I don't see how that can be considered micspam.

Just because everyone in the server is fine with it at the time does not invalidate the rule. The rules don't just apply when people complain. Not everyone wants to hear people screaming in their mic, singing, playing earrape, or spamming the same soundboard clip every 2 seconds. This is how nearly every TTT server operates and I see absolutely no reason to change it at this time. Timed mutes & gags are currently being tested but they will also not change the current rules on micspam. 

So what you mean to say is staff gets to conveniently choose when to use their "discretion" and when to lay out the "rules are rules" card.

So when you, Nicol, got on the server and killed Burb with !explode, because that has happened, you made sure to properly deal out your own punishment right? Just because Burb was okay with it, and the rest of the server was okay with it, it doesn't invalidate the rules. The rules don't just apply with people complain.

---

terrible argument...

Not really. If the mic was such an integral part of the game, then people without mics / people who don't use mics would not be allowed to play on the server. We have plenty of prevalent players such as: i am a noober, fanta, flare, adam, nick who do not use mics and are successful players. There are binds that exists.

Communication is not diminished when players can not speak over the mic.

So yes. You should just gag people. Though, in this instance the majority of the server was fine with the soundboard.

What's the real 'terrible argument' is dishing out permabans for situations like this.

your argument is literally that everyone should have to accommodate for Timbo because he wants to spam shitty memes on the server everyday.....

The reading comprehension in this thread is abysmal. My argument is one that many people on the server share, this should not be a perma-bannable offense. Really has nothing to do with Timbo, else I would have made a thread specifically catered to Timbo. This is specifically for the rewriting of the rules.

---

Im in favor for officially allowing soundboards on the server, im a pretty lenient mod I literally let people play sound clips all the time, but perma banning is necessary for instances like timbo, who is a long time offender with a grocery list of warnings and multiple instances of purposely baiting staff and wasting their time....we should allow soundboards but the standard micspam rules will still have to apply, if it's constantly interrupting the gameplay/ annoying players then it should not be allowed.

Right, and I would agree that you are a lenient and fun mod to play with. However, my problem is with your last statement. If we're specifically talking about Timbo, then I would very much argue that soundboard in deadchat does not interrupt gameplay at all. It's deadchat. Many of his warns are given in deadchat. I'm not in a position to argue any of the other details, because contrary to what you and others in this thread believe, I actually haven't played with Timbo enough to give an opinion on it.

Generally,
Rewriting the rules to allow more leniency in deadchat, and limiting permabans for micspam, is what I aim to suggest in this post.

[Nicol Bolas]

Nobody is permabanned for using a soundboard. People are permabanned for multiple stacking offenses over the course of time. If you are using a soundboard consistently after multiple warnings, you will be banned to escalate the issue. This continues until the problem is resolved. Micspam is and always will be against the rules. 

When no one in the server is complaining, I don't see how that can be considered micspam.

Just because everyone in the server is fine with it at the time does not invalidate the rule. The rules don't just apply when people complain. Not everyone wants to hear people screaming in their mic, singing, playing earrape, or spamming the same soundboard clip every 2 seconds. This is how nearly every TTT server operates and I see absolutely no reason to change it at this time. Timed mutes & gags are currently being tested but they will also not change the current rules on micspam. 

So what you mean to say is staff gets to conveniently choose when to use their "discretion" and when to lay out the "rules are rules" card.

So when you, Nicol, got on the server and killed Burb with !explode, because that has happened, you made sure to properly deal out your own punishment right? Just because Burb was okay with it, and the rest of the server was okay with it, it doesn't invalidate the rules. The rules don't just apply with people complain.

That is not what I am saying at all, not sure where you're getting that from. Staff are given their rank to enforce the rules for the betterment of the server. You say staff are "conveniently" able to choose to use their discretion. Yeah. That's why they are staff and normal players are not. They are trusted to use their judgement to ensure the server is running smoothly. Not every new player wants to join a server and get their ears blasted by someone yelling at max volume. What a small group of regular players finds funny and fine is not always the majority server opinion. I doubt you're running polls every time someone micspams and ensuring it's a unanimous agreement, but I'm getting off topic. 

The rules have been written in a way to allow the game to flow smoothly. They have evolved overtime to their current state based on community feedback. I do appreciate the suggestion even if I do not agree with it at this time. At the end of the day, nobody is being banned for using a soundboard once. If they are, feel free to let me know as that is not proper procedure. Anyone being banned from micspam is banned due to multiple past offenses stacking. Bans are used as a final measure of punishment. 

I'm going to ignore the second part of this post because it's not relevant at all and not even a parallel to this discussion in the slightest (micspamming =/= killing someone with consent) and is more of an ad hominem but thanks.

[synthray]

What is "baiting with micspam"

 TTT guidelines' definition of micspam includes "Playing Music" and by definition never allowed. The song that was being played was https://youtu.be/LkuM1wSH5hI and I think we all let it play itentirely. Even if the users were ok with it it was too much.

[Timbo]

What is "baiting with micspam"

 TTT guidelines' definition of micspam includes "Playing Music" and by definition never allowed. The song that was being played was https://youtu.be/LkuM1wSH5hI and I think we all let it play itentirely. Even if the users were ok with it it was too much.

Can I just say people linking to this shit with a serious tone (like it's evidence) in what is basically gamer congress is the funniest shit I've ever seen

[TheUltraFish]

Re"RussEfarmer" has made a script for muting people. Use it. 

Lol if only it was that easy. You have to first get Dink to notice it and then add it which even getting Dinks attention has caused many resignations.

[jax]

Nobody is permabanned for using a soundboard. People are permabanned for multiple stacking offenses over the course of time. If you are using a soundboard consistently after multiple warnings, you will be banned to escalate the issue. This continues until the problem is resolved. Micspam is and always will be against the rules. 

When no one in the server is complaining, I don't see how that can be considered micspam.

Just because everyone in the server is fine with it at the time does not invalidate the rule. The rules don't just apply when people complain. Not everyone wants to hear people screaming in their mic, singing, playing earrape, or spamming the same soundboard clip every 2 seconds. This is how nearly every TTT server operates and I see absolutely no reason to change it at this time. Timed mutes & gags are currently being tested but they will also not change the current rules on micspam. 

So what you mean to say is staff gets to conveniently choose when to use their "discretion" and when to lay out the "rules are rules" card.

So when you, Nicol, got on the server and killed Burb with !explode, because that has happened, you made sure to properly deal out your own punishment right? Just because Burb was okay with it, and the rest of the server was okay with it, it doesn't invalidate the rules. The rules don't just apply with people complain.

That is not what I am saying at all, not sure where you're getting that from. Staff are given their rank to enforce the rules for the betterment of the server. You say staff are "conveniently" able to choose to use their discretion. Yeah. That's why they are staff and normal players are not. They are trusted to use their judgement to ensure the server is running smoothly. Not every new player wants to join a server and get their ears blasted by someone yelling at max volume. What a small group of regular players finds funny and fine is not always the majority server opinion. I doubt you're running polls every time someone micspams and ensuring it's a unanimous agreement, but I'm getting off topic. 

The rules have been written in a way to allow the game to flow smoothly. They have evolved overtime to their current state based on community feedback. I do appreciate the suggestion even if I do not agree with it at this time. At the end of the day, nobody is being banned for using a soundboard once. If they are, feel free to let me know as that is not proper procedure. Anyone being banned from micspam is banned due to multiple past offenses stacking. Bans are used as a final measure of punishment. 

I'm going to ignore the second part of this post because it's not relevant at all and not even a parallel to this discussion in the slightest (micspamming =/= killing someone with consent) and is more of an ad hominem but thanks.

Right, and their discretion is supposed to fit within the boundaries of the guidelines that are established for staff. Which is why I made this thread. "Rewrite the micspam rules". I am advocating that the guid lines that the staff operate within be changed to be more lenient towards sound boards, especially soundboards in deadchat. A 24 hour - week ban is sufficient. I can also assure you that most of the legitimate 'micspam' / 'soundboards' are well received by most people on the server. There have been polls before. Obviously ear rape, and in-round is a different beast.

No, but people are warned for using soundboards when a warn isn't warranted. As mentioned, when someone is using a soundboard (not even at max level) and it's not just some shitty mic spam, I do not agree that a warn is warranted. If there are multiple people complaining or voicing their dissatisfaction to the staff on at the time, then sure, that's a different story. Those "stacked warns", which I am arguing aren't justified in the first place, then result in an eventual ban.

As for your last part
Lets change what you originally said "Just because everyone in the server is fine with it at the time does not invalidate the rule. The rules don't just apply when people complain." to

"Just because burb is fine with it at the time does not invalidate the rule. The rules don't just apply when people complain."

which is essentially what you just responded with "(micspamming =/= killing someone with consent) and is more of an ad hominem but thanks."

But I agree, not relevant to the main point of the thread which was ultimately: Rewrite the guidelines for micspamming. Not just for bans, but what warrants warns as well.

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Re"RussEfarmer" has made a script for muting people. Use it. 

Lol if only it was that easy. You have to first get Dink to notice it and then add it which even getting Dinks attention has caused many resignations.

That's fair. Does that man even interact with the server? Jesus man really just takes the money and runs

---

What is "baiting with micspam"

 TTT guidelines' definition of micspam includes "Playing Music" and by definition never allowed. The song that was being played was https://youtu.be/LkuM1wSH5hI and I think we all let it play itentirely. Even if the users were ok with it it was too much.

So why did you let the song play in the entirety then? How does it become too much if the users were okay with it? If the users were okay with it, who does it become too much for?

Just trying to understand

[Jammin]

Current rule language:

4. Do Not Spam
Chat and mic spam are never allowed. Singing, yelling, voice changers, and excessive speaking are all mic spam. Arguments that prevent others from enjoying the game are also prohibited.

Current guidelines language:

Spamming/Mic Spam

The server’s definition of spamming is unnecessary words or sentences that are being excessively repeated in the in-game chat, or voice chat. Mic spamming can also be defined as singing into the mic, playing music, yelling, and excessively speaking. Chat spam/mic spam is NEVER allowed, even during pre round or post round.


Instances of Spam
Punishment
1: Warning and or Gag/Mute for a short time. Typically this gag or mute should last no more than a few minutes.
2: Gag/Mute for a full round
3: Kick.
4: 1+Day Temp Ban.

Note to Mods: Ban for one day after user exceeds all these warnings, if player has violated other rules you may use your discretion to issue a longer ban that should be no more than a week depending on the severity. If you cannot determine a discretion, please place a one day ban and contact the Admins to determine an appropriate ban length.

Example of Spamming/Flooding/Mic Spam

"lfdglfkdlkgjfdlkgjdflkfgjkdfkjkjgfdflkg”
This is flooding. Give player warning to stop spamming chat with unnecessary things repeatedly. If the player fails to comply to the warning, go to the second offense that is stated above.

“Hello”
“Hello”
“Hello”
“Hello”.... etc.
This is spamming. Give player warning to stop spamming chat and issue a short mute to the player

[bryanbrr]

While I do not believe that the rules surrounding mic spam need to change, I do believe that it is possible to change the punishment of mic spam. The introduction of Timed Gag/Mute is a way to how we could change it. Instead of punishments based on bans, we could change it to longer and longer gag/mute times. Currently, the structure looks like this.

1st: Short Gag/Mute
2nd: Round Gag/Mute
3rd: Kick
4th: 1 Day+ Ban.

Russ has confirmed to me that with the introduction of the timed gag/mute that the gag won't be lifted even after the player disconnects so I am proposing the change of punishment based on that.

1st: 1 min gag/mute
2nd: 5 min gag/mute
3rd: 10 min gag/mute
4th: 30 min gag/mute
5th: 1 Day+ Ban

I do agree that a permanent ban for such things as mic spam is outrageous if all the player is doing is playing voice clips/music over the mic. If this was something like using slurs or harassing other players then of course take action based on the guidelines. I think this proposed way would be a good way to handle the current situation and make it easier overall for staff.