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he is expecting this to be appealed
(06-22-2021, 09:03 PM)matt_st3 (Strongrule) Wrote: =znipperz=
Okay. So.
Quoting threads, not bad. The thread being made happened way before the discord thing. The discord thing happened because Gabe pinged Jammin and a few people jumped in, and it snowballed from there. It wasn't some pre-met thing where we got together and said "let's raid dinks discord", it just happened. Awhile after the post, might I add.

Just saying it was a pre-planned night because the four of us were involved is just weird, because we hang out every night, and that's pretty known.

Yes, this was normal just hanging out in discord behavior, we do this all the time in other games, just to a different extent because it's more personable because we can screw around with friends during.

This had no intention to be dramatic in any way, so the similar drama reasons doesn't make sense. If people want to make drama out of it, that's another thing, and I'll double down on that if that's where we want to go, but I don't want to go that route.

If you're more heavy-handed for unrelated things than usual over an unrelated issue, maybe you need to take a break. Inconsistency based on mood creates an unfair environment, which for us it's fine and made sense but might not always. Just a thought.

And, again, I didn't do anything with the slurs, I spammed for awhile, in good humor that was well received, and was never told to stop until I got banned. That's what happened.
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-courtesy of a sarcastic fish
(06-22-2021, 09:03 PM)matt_st3 (Strongrule) Wrote: The amount of spam in that chat was not just fucking around. A lot of threads were quoted, a thread was made, supposedly there was some pre agreement that you would back down plus the group creation of the thread says that this was a pre planned night.

Don't know where you heard that from. The only thing even remotely related to "backing down" that was mentioned was us not even doing this if we knew about the level of stress the admins are currently under. We started typing in general and it escalated from there. You keep pushing this narrative that this was a pre-planned thing and we all conspired to raid the discord and ruin everyone's fun, and it simply isn't true. We did it on the fly and that's that. The forum post wasn't related at all and I'm extremely confused as to why you think it is.

Whatever the reason, jammin issuing only two bans was extremely light considering the amount of times some of the players have caused or been part of similar issues. This stress or admins being on edge was not taken out on 4 random players just vibing in discord. 2 temp bans and a few warnings on discord were issued plus an overnight ban for forums. That’s it. In 17, 18 when a few of you joined you would have just been gone over something like this for quite a time. Many of you were previous mods or admins and all adults. So was this normal just hanging out in discord behavior?

For us, yes, that is normal "just hanging out in discord behavior." Don't believe me? Hang out with us in a vc for a day. Or ask anyone who knows us. Last night was 100% over the top, yes, but I still feel as if a simple "hey, knock it off" would've sufficed. Nothing to say as for the discord warnings, but the bans don't reflect the severity of the crime. (fyi: it wasnt that serious)

As for the forum bans, that was a huge overstep. What happened on the discord was unrelated to the forums and you banned all 4 of us on the assumption that we would take it there after the discord shit cooled down.

To rands ban - I believe you backed out yet at the same time you just came off a discord ban for similar “drama” reasons. Maybe this wouldn’t normally warrant more than a month under other circumstances but I also don’t like decreasing ban times on similar infractions. Ultimately for your ban concerning discord, I’m split. I will acknowledge I’m a lot more heavy handed this week but I do think we’ve stopped making an impression with bans or moderation and just slap on the wrist for years in a row. Y’all jumped in and broke rules of spam and either evading slurs and tagging older ones. I really don’t know what to tell you.

Gonna let Rand respond to that.
my responses are in joe biden
And, actually, as one more thing, and I won't say another word after this, but if you guys really just want to completely bury every past event that has happened that has heavily shaped the community, then say that. Don't just pretend like bringing up old things is trying to rehash old drama. A lot of people have had this server as a core part of their lives for a hot minute, and reminiscing over the big moments, most being filled with drama, will end up being more happy than bad. Even people like Noire look back at his dumb demotion thing and laugh more than anything, there's no drama to be had there. Not being able to recognize that, or just ignoring that in an attempt to ignore the past because it's filled with a few messed up things, is silly.

If y'all are trying to because you feel guilty over how some things were handled, like Rippe, that's one thing. And if someone said that, everyone would understand. If this is a conversation that needs to be had, then say that. Because everyone brings up all the past stuff all the time, but bringing it all up at once in a very "let's reminisce" format is where we seem to draw the line? I just legitimately don't understand the issue.
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-courtesy of a sarcastic fish
This is how hatred brews, I don't understand what's so hard about just apologizing and moving on (on both sides) I'm sorry I didn't see any of this going down, had I, I would've stepped in and stopped it well before it spiraled into what it became. I have zero issues with people revisiting past problems, it helps remind us why we strive to be better than those who came before. The concern is dwelling on the past and making it a further issue for those who may have been involved back then.
Regardless. I myself have nothing to hide and I don't think we should either, that's why the whole transparency meme started because if we aren't clear on what has happened and what isn't acceptable then the same shit will just repeat itself every year.
The lesson for all of us here should be to step back and reassess our actions. Should we have immediately forum banned you four? No. Should you guys have realized poking a sleeping bear wasn't a good idea? Yes. Instead of arguing however who did what we should just accept that it happened, learn from each other, and move on.
Rant aside I think you should get a +1 for discord unban, what you did seemed annoying at worst if not largely inoffensive otherwise. You specifically seemed to do basically nothing other than just having fun with the situation.
If you can read this you're gay.
I think that the staff generally disencourage bringing up or archiving previous events, many of which involve drama and/or morally reprehensible actions. I have a hunch this might come from Dink himself but otherwise I think its because they think that the thoughts and feelings from the original event would cause further conflict. I do not agree with the approach, because even if they were correct about it causing more conflict, the history of this server is long and storied, and deserves to be actively archived.

Anyway +1 because the people who did the "raid" are dedicated members of the server who know more about it combined than maybe even Dink himself from the general uninvolved approach he seems to have regarding it, and banning Rand, Xanax, and the rest would mean getting rid of a lot of history.

Thx 4 coming 2 my TED Talk.
"Why is fake Gabe back?" -Prince Nicky
Posting this on the behalf of someone who wishes to remain anonymous.

Would it not be much simpler to have the member(s) in question sit down with staff and discuss these problems ? Forums is a way to do that but it seems ineffective for problems like these. If the member(s) and staff could talk in a separate discord call or the audience/stage thing (whatever it's called), problems can be sorted out faster and more effectively. Of course, community input is also important but it seems like the community doesn't like to give their input because they are friends with both staff and the troublemakers, scared of the staff, scared of what the community has to say, or they don't care to comment. Majority of this unban request is a back and forth between the people who banned Rand and the members who were there with Rand. Correct me if i'm wrong but there were a lot more people that witnessed this, right ? Community input won't work on this so why not get in a vc and talk about this ?

Semi-related. Let's address the toxicity, I mean transparency in the community. There is little to no transparency. The people that kept bringing up the pedos didn't know about the cp guy that plagued the servers. (My condolences to anyone who had to see the heinous post. Thank you to the staff that are always quick on banning that guy and trying to keep him away from the servers. I truly thank you for continuing to put yourself through this so others don't have to see it.) If the member(s) were told about the cp guy, im sure their stance on bringing up the pedos would change. I'm sure if they were told, they would have stopped. I'm also sure that the member(s) would have stopped if someone had said something and warned them or asked them to stop.

I have an idea for both sides to understand each other and I also wanna bring up Staff Chat/Staff Chat Leaks since this is Rand's unban request and his previous ban was for this. It seems fitting to me. Would it not be much simpler to have staff talk to the players who are causing chaos as opposed to sitting in their den talking about the players. I propose an idea, an idea that everyone could be happy with. If a thread where it seems like it's going to cause drama or an unban request that is more than a simple "Ok, just don't do it again" pops up, why not head to a discord dm/vc ? This can A. Get rid of the majority of staff chat leaks and B. Be more effective than a forum post. Threads won't have to last hours just to be locked. Instead, it can simply be dealt with in a vc call for an hour or 2. Both sides can tell their side of the story and both sides will know what each other thinks. A lot of what is said in the Forum Posts doesn't fully reflect the posters thoughts. Staff Chat on the other hand, has a lot more input and opinion than the Thread. So why not use dms to express all opinions and have a better understanding of each others sides ? Leaks won't need to happen in order for the member to understand the entire thought of the staff and problems that can be solved in an hour won't last days.
"Semi-related. Let's address the toxicity, I mean transparency in the community. There is little to no transparency. The people that kept bringing up the pedos didn't know about the cp guy that plagued the servers. (My condolences to anyone who had to see the heinous post. Thank you to the staff that are always quick on banning that guy and trying to keep him away from the servers. I truly thank you for continuing to put yourself through this so others don't have to see it.) If the member(s) were told about the cp guy, im sure their stance on bringing up the pedos would change. I'm sure if they were told, they would have stopped. I'm also sure that the member(s) would have stopped if someone had said something and warned them or asked them to stop."

Thank you for most of this statement.  

I do not wish to derail this unban, only wanted to thank this anonymous person for helping me to open my eyes and take action. 
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Albert Einstein
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Thanks for taking the time to issue a well-thought out unban request in regards to Tuesday morning's schenanigans. Your honesty is well appreciated.

All of you involved in the situation received strikes for shitposting and/or slur usage - the shitposting mainly from enormous discord messages where entire threads were posted (not just linked), while the slurs were typed to side-step the auto-filter.
Two persons involved received bans - derp and NotRand. Three received strikes - NotRand, Laced, and Deadpool (a fourth person also received a strike due to slurs, but I don't believe that person was coordinating in the incident). Laced received an auto-mute from the Auttaja bot, which restricted actions post-strike, so no further action was taken on him. Deadpool ceased with shiposting after the strike.

To be clear, neither deadpool nor notrand used slurs during the incident; their strikes were for shitposting and trolling alone.
That being said, all four brought up needless drama - whether that be from linking to past slurs, bringing up various points of dinks drama of days gone by, etc. There's a reason why we restrict the discord server from these kind of discussions - actual discussions on transparancy, where there is legitimate concern of rulebreaking or wrongdoing by the dinklebergs staff team, should be brought up here on the forums. For the 85% of people who join dinks to play video games, the discord is not a welcoming environment when points of cringey drama of the past are stirred up to light. While i'm not about burying all of Dink's history, I am also not in support of bringing up all of the mud in the #general channel of discord all in one setting. Is dinkleberg drama of the past worthwhile discussing? Perhaps - but the current established practice is to not have this conversation in the #general channel. It has been suggested in the past to create a channel for discussions like this, so that those who don't want to be involved in the drama can simply mute that channel - if we get more discord staff, this may be possible in the future. I don't want the discord to become a haven for toxicity, but I don't want it to become a haven for censorship either. Ideally, the discord will strike a delicate balance that allows for the important discussions about the operations of dinklebergs to occur, while yet allowing the majority of the discord group to just hang out while playing video games.

Another note, yes we have all been on edge recently due to the illegal activity taking place on one of the gaming servers. Unfortunately, our server seems to be one of the first targetted by the culprit. But I think we all have to take a step back and realize that, while the actions taking place were annoying as hell, when compared to the illegal activity we are all on the same team - the drama llamas and the admins both want this guy to get caught - and the admins should not issue punishment on the community that is meant for the actual criminal in this case.

Back to the unban - Why did NotRand get banned? Simply put, there were 3 factors going into this:
1. He just got off of a 3-month ban for leaking staff chat, albiet this ban was not linked to the discord in any way
2. He was the only person to ignore my "final warning" message prior to being muted, then banned
3. Raiding is technically a TOS issue, so by me not permanently banning is technically generious per the current guidelines
4. There was an aspect of "guilt by association" that played a role here - as there often is when raids occur.

Aspect 3 and 4 were factors in the ban that should not have been. This was not a real raid as defined by discord TOS, just coordinated stupidity from known sources. This wasn't something that falls under a TOS situation.

All of that being said, the ban length is very excessive - I'll admit to acting in a very tired mindset (as this happened at 4 AM my time), and chose a very arbitrary time for the ban length. Essentially, I intended the ban as a way to get an explanation as to the activities that occurred, and the actions taken by Rand that night. Should I have done so? Ehh, debatable - an extended mute could have solved the issue had I done so earlier in the evening. Just as the temporary forum bans were meant as a "timeout" period to stop the activity that was devolving the conversation into chaos, keeping the mute on for a few hours, then deciding on an extended length would probably have been a better way to handle the situation.

After consultation with the discord staff team, we agree that a REDUCTION is the best course of action here. The staff were inclined to a 2-3 week total reduction - I think given all of the circumstances involved in the ban, the community's feedback, and Rand's own recommended punishment of a week or two, I feel that a 2-week ban in the discord is the best course of action here.

Your ban will be lifted now with a mute applied - this will be lifted 2 weeks from the initial mute applied, on Tuesday, July 6th. If your mute is not released by that date, please contact me so it can be released.
Edit: Unable to apply the mute as originally stated due to discord limitations
Edit2: mute applied
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