[.cee]

When I used to play in elementary school back in the day before my hiatus, around 2012, there was a rule that you must be 16+ to use the mic. Squeakers were permanently gagged until they turned 16, but those youngins who had deep voices would never be suspected of being under the age of 16. I got staff at like 13 because there is no way to verify someone's age without invading their privacy in a questionable way with some sort of identification (e.g., ID, DL, passport,).

I don't think this community has an issue with users and their ages. Garry's Mod is a game that caters to people of all ages and staff is here to make sure everyone gets along. We have rules that should be enforced with any problematic individuals.

[reed1103]

Should be up to dink whether or not to create/enforce such a rule tbh

[♥Nick♥]

So the steam minimum age is 13 and for some time If I hear a voice that is a little young I ask how old they are and if they respond with an age under 13 I have been kicking. 

Recently I was told we don't enforce this... 

So I'd like some feedback if we do or not. Obviously, there is no way to verify age and if they lie we just gotta let them be. 

If it's not something we enforce should it be?

As conversations in chats are often not good for a young child's ears.

#Protect the kids from this cespool

This has to be a troll post. This isn't enforceable unless you actually hear them on the mic and even then its debatable for those around 13, or older sometimes. Valve doesn't even enforce that rule, because they can't. Also, the fact that you ask kids how old they are is creepy; that isn't a normal thing to ask. Do you even hear yourself when you ask? "Protect the kids" is really stupid, it always has been. In elementary I heard my classmates call each other "nigga" and curse each other. In middle school I heard my classmates talk about banging their teachers and learned about Boku no Pico. By the end of freshman year high school I witnessed everything.
The real problem is toxicity; you even call the community/server a "ces[s]pool." Some players (you know who) are really toxic, calling people names and complaining all the time. Disparaging remarks on other players just because you're better than them isn't fun. It's one thing to quip or smack talk, but calling people trash/shit all the time or telling them to kill themselves is going pretty far for players that aren't used to that type of trash talk. Other times you guys just let people carry a conversation about pedophilia when you can just gag/mute everyone talking about it for the round. Being around toxic people all the time isn't fun. Most of the players on the server are pretty decent, but some just start to get tiring to play with.

[reina]

Also, the fact that you ask kids how old they are is creepy; that isn't a normal thing to ask.

Please don't imply Les asking a harmless question is somehow predatory behavior. Not gonna argue about whether or not it's creepy, just saying that's completely unnecessary.

[jax]

So the steam minimum age is 13 and for some time If I hear a voice that is a little young I ask how old they are and if they respond with an age under 13 I have been kicking. 

Recently I was told we don't enforce this... 

So I'd like some feedback if we do or not. Obviously, there is no way to verify age and if they lie we just gotta let them be. 

If it's not something we enforce should it be?

As conversations in chats are often not good for a young child's ears.

#Protect the kids from this cespool

This has to be a troll post. This isn't enforceable unless you actually hear them on the mic and even then its debatable for those around 13, or older sometimes. Valve doesn't even enforce that rule, because they can't. Also, the fact that you ask kids how old they are is creepy; that isn't a normal thing to ask. Do you even hear yourself when you ask? "Protect the kids" is really stupid, it always has been. In elementary I heard my classmates call each other "nigga" and curse each other. In middle school I heard my classmates talk about banging their teachers and learned about Boku no Pico. By the end of freshman year high school I witnessed everything.
The real problem is toxicity; you even call the community/server a "ces[s]pool." Some players (you know who) are really toxic, calling people names and complaining all the time. Disparaging remarks on other players just because you're better than them isn't fun. It's one thing to quip or smack talk, but calling people trash/shit all the time or telling them to kill themselves is going pretty far for players that aren't used to that type of trash talk. Other times you guys just let people carry a conversation about pedophilia when you can just gag/mute everyone talking about it for the round. Being around toxic people all the time isn't fun. Most of the players on the server are pretty decent, but some just start to get tiring to play with.

Asking someone their age is in no way inherently creepy. What is creepy is your automatic link between asking someone their age and predatory intent. 

I know this is a GMOD community, so asking for a little social adeptness is like asking for pigs to fly, but how some of you guys function in the real world is a mystery. 

Children playing has never been a problem; if their voice is annoying or they aren’t handling voice chat maturely then gag them. Banning children from playing won’t solve anything, especially since there’s no way to verify age. It’s also unnecessary. If people are worried about predators / pedo’s, I understand but limiting the game to 18+ will hardly solve that. Just ban the weirdos. 

Also, who cares lmao. If your playing experience has been ruined by a child that’s on you.

[B0T.ikillyou]

Steam has a User Agreement which states all Steam "Subscribers" (basically, anyone who purchases a game on the steam store) must be at least the age of 13. Which is honestly probably just for various legal reasons.

However, I think its a good guideline for the server to maintain an age rule ourselves to the best of our abilities. Obviously I'm strongly against asking every player that comes on here their age as that would be really unnecessary. But I think it would be a great idea to not make our server become a place where children can become impressionable by the players on here. (no offense, but some of y'all say some mad inappropriate shit.) 

Currently we have no rules on our !motd or forums that say a player must be 13. This is totally fine in my opinion. Many things should go without saying and the !motd should be kept brief. I think any staff with some decency though should stay aware if they hear someone really young using the voice channel. There has been times where I've heard players that sound no older than 11, and I've kicked them without the smallest warning. This seems like common sense to me at many times at night when players are talking about god knows what, drugs, crimes, mental issues, the latest deviantart trends, chris chan, the list goes on... (on the other hand I've heard some children curse out our players harder than any adult ever could)
I personally think that if we are unsure of a players age, but they seem mature enough or keep to themselves enough, we should allow them on the server without intervening. We should never second guess or question what age a player says they are. This age rule should be loosely enforced in a sense, just pay attention to the obvious and never dig.

So in my opinion staff should kick children whenever a bell rings off in their head that they can avoid causing any trouble or letting someone get trolled. Even if this rule is never formalized I'm going to keep enforcing it loosely because frankly I am uncomfortable with the way some people treat really young players that pop into the server and I just think it's best for everyone. I can even recall back to my days of being a Regular and seeing Upper staff kick children when it was obvious they didn't have a clue what was going on in the game. So I've always just upheld a similar ideology

To add on to this:
According to COPPA (Federal Law in the US), if someone is using online services under the age of 13, we have to terminate their usage of the service if we collect information when they visit our service. This blocks us from bringing anyone to the community when they are under 13 without a COPPA form filled by their parents and sent to the owner of the site (AKA Dink). I used to be part of an old community that had to deal with COPPA and its a pain. I would just recommend avoiding it and not allowing anyone under the age of 13 to be part of the community. 

Now for the server though, there isn't a clear guideline in COPPA around handling of players that are under the age of 13 playing on our servers with permission from their parents. Garry's Mod Terms of service, on the other hand, state that the user must be 13 years or older to use the service. This means that if we do not get rid of someone under the age of 13, we might be in breach of Garry's Mod Terms of Service. 
In the end, there is no way to verify someone's age unless they explicitly tell us. If they don't tell us they are under the age of 13, we can't prove it. We also cannot assume someone's age because they do not want to tell us. Someone can sound 11 and be 13 or 15 or even 18. Someone can sound 30 and be 17, 15, or even 11. You never know. I would say we would need solid evidence or something darn close to it for us to get rid of someone just because they sound young.

[bunniey]

mods enforcing rules that don't exist, how do they even get to be mods lmao

[TheUltraFish]

If a child under the age of 13 is playing the game, then they either lied to steam when making their account or their parents/guardians gave them permission or did not care. That gets rid of our legal "obligation" that some have talked about to find out or verify their age. Not to mention, it would not be possible to verify their age 100% unless they flat out told you and then you would have to assume they are being honest or not. (Which this is the internet so good luck with that)

Guessing someone's age via Gmod mic is dangerous as
A) the mics easily suck in this game
B) voice changers exist and some people are very good at using them to sound different
C) people have different voices that makes it impossible to guess everyone's age
D) some people purposefully change the way their voice sounds over the mic without a voice changer (VR chat would be a good example)

You have to understand, is that at least for PH (and assuming the other servers) is that much of our player base is outside of America and other English speaking countries so that gets into a whole new level of difficulty of guessing/verifying someone's age. If someone attacks a child for speaking or has their day ToTaLy RuInEd from a kid playing the game or asking a question, then most have not been individuals that we have wanted on the server(s) anyways as they go after more than just kids. Many of them have gone after female players as well when they hear them speak.

Go after and stop the troublemakers and harassers that go after children the same way that you stop them pursuing anyone else. I am against an age verification for playing a game on a gaming server that is already technically covered by steam.

[RussEfarmer]

There is no legal obligation for us to enforce the 13 year age limit. The Facepunch terms of service require you to be 13 years of age to use Facepunch software, but 3rd party servers aren't obligated to enforce this at all.

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that we would be interrogating every user on our server how old they are.. it's as simple as if they sound 7 years old and you casually ask their age and they say something below 13, don't let them play. Implementation isn't a big deal because it's simply not important. Something that would be a good thing to discuss is why? As I said we have no obligation to actually enforce Facepunch/Steam terms of service because we do not legally represent Facepunch or Steam.. we simply use their software.

The only benefits would be three things:

• Compliance with COPPA - This does not apply to us because we do not collect personally identifiable information. COPPA outlaws collection of PII for children under 13 years old (which is why companies simply forbid people under this age from using their services)
  
• Protecting children - Obviously there have been some not super awesome people on our servers, and there will be more. Of course banning people under a certain age doesn't really fix this.. it's like making a law where black people can't walk on the sidewalk because people are racist. Doesn't make sense
  
• No squeakers - Probably the most legitimate reason. Enough said
  

[Battons]

why are you taking something like that into your own hands and enforcing a rule thats not a rule
why is that not being addressed as well

Actually I don't mind when the staff team tries their best to handle a situation with the information they are given. I have shared publicly now that kicking over age isn't a good choice so I don't think there is any reason to be upset at Les as long as the behavior doesn't continue.