[Foxka]

I agree with the title of the thread here a very silly situation indeed. Derp shouldn't have kicked cause staff was on and jack should have gone with an awarn first before kicking, per guidelines.

[^aethy]

Kicking a blatant cheater ASAP after gathering evidence results in nothing detrimental and actually benefits the rest of the server. Penalizing someone for acting faster than staff in this case is extremely weird. These situations are not always black and white and should be acted upon subjectively instead of automatically warning/kicking/etc. in fear of not adhering to guidelines.

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That being said I don’t think either side should be punished over something this petty. 

[Battons]

Do people not know how to apologize to each other anymore? I’d like to hear nimbles* side before we review everything.

[RussEfarmer]

Donors shouldn't be doing anything with a moderator connected

[August]

Donors shouldn't be doing anything with a moderator connected

This is the correct answer. If staff is on at all, even just a trusted, then the staff handless the situation in full. Unless the staff member specifically asks for assistance, which this report suggests they didn't, then Donors do NOTHING.

[Jack (2)]

Good afternoon ya'll.

Let me try to explain what occurred last night to my best knowledge without coming off too much as he said, he said.

Playing on motel, a guest under the name caty joined. On one of the first rounds they played, they lasered me from a good distance away with an auto rifle, so I decided to keep tabs on them for the rest of the game and came to the conclusion that they were hacking. Unfortunately for me, up until the round that Damien posted a video from, my OBS wasn't up and running so I couldn't clip the stuff I had already seen.

Now when I had an inkling that this player was hacking, I told cryptic salsa who was on at the time, and Damien since they usually are a great help for gathering quick evidence. Of course, salsa became preoccupied looking back at the footage he had recorded, during the round the hacker was a traitor and getting into plenty of fights. By this point though, I had him dead to rights with what I observed and so did Damien and other players who were on. The hacker wasn't mass-rdming or anything of the like, they were playing normally the entire time aside from the fact that they were hacking.

At this point was when Dero kicked the player who was hacking, mid traitor round, while I was trying to get salsa to see it for himself.

The rest sort of plays out on video so at most I can just tell you what was going through my head at the time.

When staff is trying to catch someone hacking, we try our best not to tip off the hacker to us being aware of their actions. When a hacker does know, they usually stop outright which makes it much harder to catch them again, or they double down and try to kill the entire server while spamming slurs in either text chat or voice.

At this point I'm telling them to shut up about it in voice chat, I'm attempting to keep an air of secrecy around it still, though I could have been much more polite about it. Admittedly I'm quite frustrated, so when they keep arguing with me I just outright kick them.

I don't have staff guidelines open 24/7 on my other monitor, so I'm not aware of the steps I'm supposed to follow in regards to donor abuse at all times. Given the foresight of the situation now, I don't regret kicking that player but I do apologize for my behavior during and following the act. Given the chance to do anything different I would have just gagged them and left it at that, though I still believe kicking them was a less severe punishment than giving them an awarn, since instead of having that stick on them they could just immediately join back with no penalty considering they were already dead for the round.

It has been a constant issue for me to have players interfere with a hacking investigation, being fed up with it as is especially while being argued at by said player trying to justify their actions led me to make an impulse action.

For the sake of transparency, I'd appreciate if Damien shared a video that wasn't clipped and shipped to show me at my worst as the one Laced Xanax gave them. After the point where the video ends, I do end up apologizing to Damien for what I said and we continued to play the game for a good hour afterward with no issues. (Mind you I had no idea this report was made until way after the fact)

At the end of the day, I do apologize for my behavior as that was rather uncouth and it seems to me to be more of an issue than kicking. Although I felt the punishment was justified it still doesn't fit the guidelines we are supposed to abide by.

[Salty]

I think this was a situation of it being late at night and tempers flared up, causing issues to blow out of proportion. I do not think that any punishment needs to be dealt out since Nimble apologized for letting frustration get to him. 


Similarly to what Battons said, I really don't understand why you didn't just handle this in private and instead went straight to the forums; I felt that this was a petty post and could've been avoided with a healthy discussion later rather than impulsively making a decision.


Thank you for your explanation, Nimble. 



Even though I made this when I was in a trolling period, it still has solid info on how to handle problems you may have with someone else professionally. 


Thank you for your time,

Salty

[Ryzif]

So to put it in a very specific way, donors shouldn't kick or really use powers while staff are on and actively dealing with it. The only reason I'd consider this to be different is if all staff are alive while someone in dead chat is spamming or something. Which they must hand evidence to staff to show their reason for action. That situation should've gone differently. The evidence should have been handed to the Mod rather than kicking because there have been plenty of times where the evidence wasn't enough to ban someone. 

What happens if your evidence isn't enough to ban the guy? You have now kicked him and he's going to do one of three things:

One, hide it much better because he knows that you know. 

Two, he's going to go on a slurring/cheating spree. (Although he will be caught this way, it's better to record it, ban him and move on with your day rather than this stupid shit.)

Three, he might just leave and come back at another occasion and start ruining the game for others when there aren't any staff on or even donors with means to record.

Although a step was skipped with the donor abuse I don't think this is something that applies as abuse considering both sides are in the wrong. If anything both sides should be properly addressed on how to do things because it would seem that both sides forgot some pretty vital things SMH.

My vote would be a warning to both Dero and Jack on how to properly handle these situations. Let staff do their thing, it's the reason why they're staff in the first place and also staff should definitely take a peak at the guidelines fairly often as to refresh for situations. Just because it doesn't happen consistently to where we know the steps off the top of our head, doesn't mean it won't happen. 

Taking time to review a situation and proper steps to handle something would help rather than jumping the gun. 

TLDR; Staff does staff things, donors aren't staff, hand off evidence to staff to handle shit first rather than jumping in the way because what if you don't have enough? (Help staff don't be donor staff. If you want to be staff then apply and get accepted) Staff should refresh on guidelines.

[Noire ♜]

Kicking a blatant cheater ASAP after gathering evidence results in nothing detrimental and actually benefits the rest of the server. Penalizing someone for acting faster than staff in this case is extremely weird. These situations are not always black and white and should be acted upon subjectively instead of automatically warning/kicking/etc. in fear of not adhering to guidelines.

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That being said I don’t think either side should be punished over something this petty. 

dude fuck yeah it's like situations occur outside of the guidelines, that's wild. 

the guidelines are exactly that GUIDE-lines it's not the end all be all of staffing. There's no need for any action here, all that was needed was "Hey derp, you bitch, thanks for kicking the cheater but let me do the staffing bitch boi." The biggest downside would be gathering evidence to ban said cheater, if he was kicked while no evidence was gathered there's a shot he won't do it again, blah blah blah. 

also there's a time and place for everything and sometimes donors can be a big help while staffing.

ban cheaters faster next time salsa

[Jammin]

One thing should be damn well clear. Donors should never kick players if staff members are actively handling the situation. If you can't be patient for proper evidence to be gathered, and aren't bothering to gather the evidence yourself and send it to staff, then you really have no role to play in the situation.
The only situation I can think of where a donor kicking players who are hacking with staff online is if that online staff member has been AFK/unresponsive. In this case the staff was clearly handling the situation.

Not saying nimble kicking derp was correct, it may not have been fully proper with our guidelines, but unless you have trusted or moderator in your rank you should not be staffing our servers when our server staff is handling the situation.

If you are really that impatient where you can't wait for proper evidence to be gathered, the maybe you should have gathered the evidence and provided it to the staff team. That way they could review it, make sure it is cheating, and ban the person. I don't believe any of the players complaining about how long staff were taking bothered to assist in this matter, although I may have missed something. If you were really upset about the cheater continuing to ruin rounds, then I assume you would have collected evidence, sent it to the staff, and allowed them to see it and ban them.

Also, kicking players who are abusing donor used to be the proper protocol. I believe the new guideline updates added verbal warnings as an official part of the process, so I would chop this up less to abuse and more nimble not being aware of the change.

I'm not trying to just harp on derp here, as there have been several donors recently who have been taking improper action as donor when staff are online. If someone shouting slurs, then sure, gag them and let staff know. Damien does a good job with this for example. But if your name is purple, you shouldn't be kicking players with staff on for any reason