[Noire ♜]

hi, how are you all

got a few questions for you

1. Do you think that the way the server currently has its rules & punishments set up is adequate for a healthy and fun gaming experience? Why or why not?

2. On a scale of 1 - 10 how prepared would you say the staff members on the server are to deal with situations faced with -- as far as punishing the breaking of said rules, blah blah. 

3. While staffing on the server, how well do you think that the staff facilitates the upholding of these rules, while also understanding the current atmosphere of the server in order to provide a fun and entertaining environment for most, if not all players on the server. 

4. What, if anything, do you like or not like about the rules.

5. What would you change in the rules or punishments, if you could. 



of course, if you really want to get as much out of this thread as possible, try your best to explain yourself well enough that everyone else reading can grasp what point you're trying to make! If you do have an issue with something, explain why don't just say that you have an issue.

[Damien]

1). I think that there's somethings I wish could be punished more harshly and things that can be punished not as harshly. For example sexual harassment and harassment are basically punished the same way when they BOTH should be punished much harsher than it is, and that's something we should fix because the two irl are handled way differently ( I know "iT's a GmOd sErVeR blah blah blah ). What I mean mostly is sexual harassment/harassment in general towards females since it happens the most. People just don't know how not to be creepy, and it's kind of silly that after this thread was made the dude only got a week ban. I just feel like stuff like this isn't taken as seriously as it should be, and I'm not blaming anyone because it is just a community server from a game that came out in 2006. Personally, I would say the base ban for harassment should be upped by how bad it is. Like in the thread I linked, the ban should've been a month or more imo. I was hoping he'd get a perma since he also rdmed me multiple times (with proof) but he didn't so :/




2). Depends on the staff member but usually around 7-8 (1 being not prepared at all)



3). Most staff members staff well while also making sure everyone has their fun (Murl is a good example), and very few staff members are pretty much fun police.



4). see answer 1.


5). see answer 4.

[misstie6731]

I think that we might need to have more explicit rules on harassment. Just saying harassment is not tolerated is very vague and is up to interpretation. An example of a specific rule regarding harassment could be; sending unwanted messages after being told to stop will result in a warn. I think this would be a good thing to try and implement to help hold those who break harassment rules accountable, and to help players to know when they can make a ban request regarding harassment since there would be explicit rules. I also agree with what damien said with his regards to the harassment rules and punishments. I hope this made sense it was kind of hard to word correctly.

[HONG]

For example sexual harassment and harassment are basically punished the same way when they BOTH should be punished much harsher than it is

agreed with this

regardless of guidelines i perma pretty much any pedo shit since i dont think it really even deserves a warning let alone any transition between warn and perma, and i think the same could go for harassment and sexual harassment; people get worse bans for rdming 2 people and leaving than for literally sexually harassing someone. theres nothing wrong with getting more lax with some stuff (rdm) and tightening up on the things that matter (protecting players). staff, usually moderators, also need to be less afraid when banning—this is how we get people with 40+ warns. you can ask yourself “what do we gain by keeping this person around? they literally harass people.”

[Bxb777 (Sukal)]

1) Overall I think most of the time the punishments are reasonable but I have to agree with Damien I bit here. Another thing I want to bring up is that some people on this server (especially when no mods are on) seem to like to throw words that harm certain people. I heard some people here call other people that can be considered slurs. I got called a word that is considered offensive to nerodivegent players (like myself) once in a while and it's kinda upsetting mods don't warn those people.

2) 8 mostly, most of the mods do there job well, some punishments are inconsistent but I just think that is just person preference of duration of punishment each mod wants to put into someone.

3) they seem to take things seriously so I don't really see much of a problem.

4) the rules seem standard to most ttt servers, I just want to see much more focus on harrassment just like what Damien said

5) nothing much really, I don't have any suggestions at the moment.

[BIIG_SAD]

1. Do you think that the way the server currently has its rules & punishments set up is adequate for a healthy and fun gaming experience? Why or why not?
I do think it could use some improvement in regards to rdm and all. That being said, the server is limited by gmod itself--there is a finite limit on how much code we can put in before it is no longer fast download.
2. On a scale of 1 - 10 how prepared would you say the staff members on the server are to deal with situations faced with -- as far as punishing the breaking of said rules, blah blah. 
I would give it a 9.5  . This is because the staff are people, and people are not perfect robots. That being said, they all do a fantastic job if you take into account the human side. Nobody is perfect, nor should we demand that the staff be robocops. This would 
3. While staffing on the server, how well do you think that the staff facilitates the upholding of these rules, while also understanding the current atmosphere of the server in order to provide a fun and entertaining environment for most, if not all players on the server. 
I think this question is flawed; the main premise of all your points is addressing  from the user (read: player, non staff) side of things. From this side, everything is great. As a non-staff of the TTT server, I don't find anything amiss.
4. What, if anything, do you like or not like about the rules.
The harassment clause, stricter enforcement of it.
5. What would you change in the rules or punishments, if you could. 
ban length be enforced for reasoning of number 4.

[Salty]

Wish we'd actually have people call out the "fun police" instead of just generalizing, because 95% of the time I can assure you they're probably not doing it unintentionally.  I recommend you actually tell people that they're being fun police either directly via DMs or make a formal complaint to a higher ranked staff member about it. Simply bitching about it on the forums, -1'ing someone on threads, and doing subtle microaggressions don't solve anything; it just makes you look like an ass.  

Noire, thanks for making this thread; I had made a feedback form similar to what you're asking here, and I sent it to Bryan; just waiting on him to post it sometime so that way those who don't want to express their opinion publicly, whether it's due to fear of losing internet points or just for the sake of anonymity, can do so. 

I'll answer here quickly, since you took the time to make this thread + my forum posts have a natural talent for putting people to sleep, or so I've heard.


1. I think the server's biggest overall issue is what limits our server's punishments from enabling us to have a more healthy and fun experience is, shockingly enough agreeing with Damien here, trying to treat sexual harassment and harassment the same way.  In fact, we don't even have a separate tab on the staff guidelines for Sexual Harassment at all. That could totally be something that SHOULD be reworked. 

2. I'd say on average that the staff team members are about at a 7-9 level or preparation. Nobody on the team is perfect 24/7, as we're human so I'd rather be honest. I consider myself at a 7. 


3. Despite recent controversy (this cesspool of a thread), I personally feel, from my perspective of before I joined the team, that nobody who is consistently on the server really powermods to be so-called "fun police." Usually every time I've played it's always been a really enjoyable experience. I don't play late night so I cannot attest to how late night staffing goes, but really, the only time I've ever thought of anyone being fun police was Brown Sugar Cinnamon Poptart back in 2020 (he got better up until he resigned, but when I first joined it was rough.) 

4. I don't think the Following KOS should be 3 warnings; I cannot tell you how many times I've had someone follow me, I say stop, and then I turn around and I get popped. Of course, it's probably just a skill issue, but we only give 1 for door blocking (correction: it's supposedly 3 but I think it should be ONE), I don't know why we don't do the same for following or have it at 2. 3 is too much in my opinion.

5. I think there's more issues than just harassment. I think that despite what transpired on that thread, it wouldn't hurt to take another look at the micspam rules. Our guidelines say that Chat/Mic spam is NEVER allowed in any circumstance, so if we're going to allow it in fluctuation of "how is the server reacting to it," then we should probably put that in our guidelines.

[Salty]

Here's my idea for updated harassment guidelines, what do you all think of this?

Regular Harassment:


1st Violation: 3 day ban


2nd: 2 Weeks or longer, at the discretion of the one banning 


3rd: Permanent Ban


Sexual Harassment:

1st Violation: 2 Weeks or Longer, at the discretion of the one banning

2nd Violation: Permanent Ban


Keep in mind, these kinds of regulations can ONLY WORK IF STAFF ARE AWARE OF HARASSMENT. If you are being harassed: PLEASE LET SOMEONE ON THE TEAM KNOW.

[voidzz]

1. In general, I believe our rules are fine for the most part. Everyone is coming forth with a valid argument regarding possibly changing harassment guidelines, as its something we are seeing more often in our server. However, I personally believe harassment should be a context-dependent case by case scenario, not one application for all. For example, the harassment from igobymany on 3mb3ry and his creepy behavior should be punished heavier than if I were to call someone a fucking idiot 10 times in a row. But, with people arguing harassment/sexual harassment being punished harder, I think this logic is flawed depending on context. Sexual harassment definitely, but just because someone is harassing the opposite gender etc doesn't necessarily make it sexual (not that anyone said it is). I think if we are to separate the two, we need heavy clarification on what the server considers to be sexual, and then yet again remember that sexual harassment can also go outside of TTT, which in most cases i'd say it does

2. 9, they are told well enough what to do when it comes to certain situations, and more often than not common sense is good. now, how often are they able to correctly handle situations? somewhere from 6-8, i believe not all situations are handled equally, nor should they be depending on the context. i.e, dong/mazzi situation, i believe it was handled properly for being late night ttt and genuine banter, if it was in the day maybe something different here.

3. It depends, we have people who are genuine funkillers and I stick by that. I do believe certain individuals are targeted more when it comes to their behavior, such as slurs etc, we have a few of staff that claim "people should know better" which isn't really a fair excuse to jump around guidelines and warn/ban people.

4/5. Following rules need to be changed, I think 2 warnings at max is plenty, three is way too many. Singing - with over 50% of server enjoying it should not be micspam, regardless if rules say it is.

I think salty's ideas should be considered as MINIMAL ban lengths, with staff discretion including anywhere from there up to +7 days depending on offense. Also, depending on the behavior, such as igobymany stalking 3mb3ry in discord and joining the calls that she's in, I would argue instances like this (as they are continued even after the ban) should be permabans, especially due to staff already warning the player of their behavior. I am not afraid to namedrop :)

[Noire ♜]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone that has replied so far! Feedback is something that the staff team receives a lot, however, this feedback is sometimes completely useless because of how it is worded, how it is said, and various other things that limit the usefulness of those complaints. The discord team put out an anonymous survey asking similar questions like these regarding the discord server, I thought it'd be interesting to actually see what the community thinks of certain topics. Of course, this limits the amount of feedback due to people not wanting to come forward but, such is life...


As far as my own thoughts on this thread, I think the rules themselves are alright. They aren't novel, just alright. However, I do have an issue with how punishment works as a whole. I think that most of the staff team tend to adhere a bit too close to the staff guidelines and the rules themselves, sometimes not using their heads, but instead just following the wall of text laid in front of them to a tee. This is not inherently an issue, but, I feel as though if you do staff you need to have a bit of ---- for lack of a better term ---- common sense? Just to see that every situation is its own and you cannot really try to fix every issue the same way. This, of course, leads to staffing being vastly different from person to person with some staff members valuing the rules being upheld over the overall experience on the server. The opposite, and just as destructive, is also the case, letting things spiral out of control due to a lack of action being taken. Finding that sweet spot, in the middle of the two, is, in my opinion, the best place to staff. 

One thing that I do not like about the rules is the punishments. When we look at individuals that have an insane number of warns tied to their account, it's difficult to treat them as though they do not know what they are doing wrong. However, I feel as though this is a fundamental problem with the awarn system --- the idea that a person does not deserve a sort of courtesy call if you will. I think that no matter the player, no matter the punishment -- save for zero tolerance things, you know what I'm talking about -- everyone should get an initial 'hey, chill out dude'. If they continue after that courtesy, that's their own fault. This also makes appealing whatever punishment they received that much harder. Being banned for general trolling or micspam seemingly out of nowhere is no fun for anyone, especially the victim of the ban. Everyone should get a warning before they get banned. Not like, "Hey I'm about to ban you, just wanted to let you know." I mean, "Hey, if you keep up with this any more I will ban you."

As far as the revision of the rules, I have been thinking of a system overhaul that is more of a reorganization of the rules with an emphasis on ease of understanding why you got punished and ease of dishing out the punishments as well. 

TTT Rules ‘Tier’ Revision

Draft 1 6/16/22

This rule rehaul is not to fundamentally change the rules of the server, but rather, to reorganize them into a more easily digestible format. This rule revision is aimed to streamline not only the interpretation of the rules but also to ease the stress of giving punishments as well. The rules will be divided up into four separate tiers with each increase in tier and increase in punishment as well. These tiers will cover almost all of the rules that can be found on TTT, save for the specific TTT rules, listed below

- General TTT Rules
o Do not RDM
o Do not False KOS
o Do not Call Bounties

Tier 1 Rules
Kick – 6-Day Ban
Strikes expire within 2 weeks

- Spam
o This includes micspam, chatspam, chat flooding, arguments, and various other things that may interfere with gameplay or a fun, healthy server environment. Of course, this will have to be staff discretion
- False Reports/Lying in Reports
- Arguing with Staff
- Earrape queues
- Minor violations of Teaming & Ghosting
- Metagaming
- Prop Interference
- Karma Baiting
- Delaying

Tier 2 Rules
1 Week Ban – 1 Month Ban
Strikes Expire After 3 Months

- Racism/Homophobia/Use of Slurs/Derogatory Language
o Just because you do not use a slur does not make it okay
- Teaming
- Ghosting
- Abuse of glitches/Exploiting
- Abuse of Commands

Tier 3 Rules
3 Month Ban – Perma Ban
Strikes Expire After 6 months

- Hacking
- Harassment/Flaming
- DDoS Threats/DDoS
- Doxing
- Minge


Tier 4 Rules
This shit is like, really bad 6 mo – community ban

- Really bad shit
- Community ban type shit
- Ultimately staff discretion




The way this system works is simple, it’s just like playing baseball. If you get three strikes, you move up a tier – except for Tier 4. In other words, you would have to have to violate the Tier 1 Rules 9 times in order to receive a ban of 3 mo – perma. Of course, you could mix and match with 3 T1 violations and 2 T2, or a combination of things.

Of course, this is a very rough, early draft of what I want to eventually create but these are thoughts on a page, support Is very appreciated.

To parrot the things above, numbers are not set in stone, nor are the things listed within the tiers. I just wanted to put my idea into a doc and get feedback on it. Would this work? Or is this a shit idea that needs to be scrapped?