[Demi Lovato's Heroin Spoon]

@proper because I'm not starting a long ass reply chain.

The issue with being sensitive online is the factor of anonymity. People will say what hurts for a reaction. The internet and its browsers are not all going to be your friend, and not every area of the internet will be catered to serve your personality needs. The internet will never be a "safe-space" and to expect it to be is just a fantasy. By protecting people from a difference of opinions, you're further reinforcing the notion that the internet- and life- will serve to fit your expectations, and it won't.

Nobody is immune to being upset over things, and I've come across shit that has upset me, and that takes a lot. Truth is, if being online is causing you severe distress, you probably shouldn't be on the internet. You can be a great person online, but again, anonymity plays a factor to who these people are when they aren't online. I can guarantee you a majority of people here do not act the same way outside of the internet. The saying "behind closed doors" couldn't be any more true.

It's about learning to separate reality from fantasy, and so many people are struggling to do that. If you take the things people have said to you to sleep at night, that's horrible on both parties end. Not knowing what somebody goes through is a moot point; we're all mostly anonymous. It's hard to swallow it, but when push comes to shove, nobody really cares about who you are on the internet unless you've managed to befriend somebody for extended periods of time, though, even then it's still arguable. In my eyes, being afraid of people online is like being afraid of the shark that walks on land.

It's unhealthy to take what people say in a video-game to bed with you. I can't imagine all the kids online who have banged my mom and have added an extra 300 pounds to my scale. It's not okay to beat someone down, but it's also not okay to feel like a constant victim because that signals a deeper issue that needs to be addressed.

I can't find the paper I did on this for my humanities class, but the idea of "safety" is one of gratification. Studies have shown internet escapism to further negatively impact subjects that are suffering from some form of issue, health; mental; or simply personality wise. My point is people need to have a better grasp of themselves before seeking shelter everywhere they go. Rates of mental illness and suicide are increasing rapidly, and they're probably not going to stop. There's a deep connection people need to understand. It's a very hard wake up.

[Zoreo]

My final thoughts on this whole situation along with me losing my shit a little. This is my very harsh opinion on all of this so take that as a warning...
I believe that some of this was justified and some of it was bullshit. Some of these bans should have been done sooner and some shouldn't have been done at all. Communication was probably the biggest issue within this entire thing. I truly believe some of this was an excuse to get rid of certain people. I also think that there are some people who need to grow up and not get offended so easily by people online. This was one of the worst decisions I've seen in all my time in multiple communities from multiple games and servers. You said that this was going to be "beneficial is the long run." Honestly, I don't think I've heard a bigger crock of shit in my entire life. You will never be able to remove toxicity or harassment from a community. There will always be toxic people. There will always be people who are easily offended. There will always be people who survive because of the lack of "evidence." If I remember correctly (I could be wrong) there was a mention of this being an example. All you did was shift the toxicity. The evidence is easy as fuck to find. You did nothing to actually "address the toxicity in the community." Obviously no one can make a decision that makes everyone happy. I understand that. But this could and should have been dealt with better. You considered the multiple posts about toxicity trying to "send the message." If you put instructions in front of someone and don't tell them that they're expected to read them, what do you think is going to happen? Also, you basically said you have no idea why TDawg was permabanned, so why was he unanimously (in principle of course) voted off the island. He's obviously unbanned now, but you still COMMUNITY BANNED him for disagreeing with people on discord. Also, this whole "indefinite" thing really pisses me off. The point of a PERMAban is to be permanent. What's the point of a permaban if you want them to appeal? This whole "we are kicking them out until they say sorry" thing is stupid. This is all my opinion and I will say it. I honestly don't care if I get demoted or banned from it.

[Mother Nuru.]

My final thoughts on this whole situation along with me losing my shit a little. This is my very harsh opinion on all of this so take that as a warning...
I believe that some of this was justified and some of it was bullshit. Some of these bans should have been done sooner and some shouldn't have been done at all. Communication was probably the biggest issue within this entire thing. I truly believe some of this was an excuse to get rid of certain people. I also think that there are some people who need to grow up and not get offended so easily by people online. This was one of the worst decisions I've seen in all my time in multiple communities from multiple games and servers. You said that this was going to be "beneficial is the long run." Honestly, I don't think I've heard a bigger crock of shit in my entire life. You will never be able to remove toxicity or harassment from a community. There will always be toxic people. There will always be people who are easily offended. There will always be people who survive because of the lack of "evidence." If I remember correctly (I could be wrong) there was a mention of this being an example. All you did was shift the toxicity. The evidence is easy as fuck to find. You did nothing to actually "address the toxicity in the community." Obviously no one can make a decision that makes everyone happy. I understand that. But this could and should have been dealt with better. You considered the multiple posts about toxicity trying to "send the message." If you put instructions in front of someone and don't tell them that they're expected to read them, what do you think is going to happen? Also, you basically said you have no idea why TDawg was permabanned, so why was he unanimously (in principle of course) voted off the island. He's obviously unbanned now, but you still COMMUNITY BANNED him for disagreeing with people on discord. Also, this whole "indefinite" thing really pisses me off. The point of a PERMAban is to be permanent. What's the point of a permaban if you want them to appeal? This whole "we are kicking them out until they say sorry" thing is stupid. This is all my opinion and I will say it. I honestly don't care if I get demoted or banned from it.

first let me personally say getting banned or demoted for disagreeing is shitty

that aside, i can get your point. a lot of people still feel this way and i understand. with tdawg while we agreed we still dont fully know the extent of everything and im sorry. that is our fault. we should have paid closer attention to >everything< and to lie about it and say we did is wrong. but we can't take back what we did, only try to make amends for it. while what he did wasn't as severe as the others it was enough to warrant some kind of ban. as for the permanence thing, i dont think theres any of us that truly see a permanent ban, as an actual PERMANENT ban if that makes sense. we always believe in the ability for people to change, and come back better,  or etc. maybe we can change the name to something more fitting, i dont know. this is another reason for miscommunication because like i said before in a nother comment on the other post, we dont see it as a death sentence, and never really have. we have let many people come back from permanent bans and some from community bans, so thats how we were looking at it, instead of through the eyes of those that viewed it as an actual permanence. we should have worded that better to begin with, and stated they were temporary until appeal, and if there was no appeal they wouldnt be lifted or something similar? im not sure which sounds better honestly. we do know that toxicity is never going to end, but we want to at least do our best to put a stop to people being afraid to talk. and it wasnt just one or two groups being scared to talk, it was a lot of individuals that had nothing to do with these people that were scared too. you're right though, communication has been the worst factor in all of this. i know we're doing what we can to work on that so that everyone has a voice, player and staff wise, and dishing out more responsibilities to lower staff so that everyone feels more equal, though many of the public isnt aware yet. I hope you guys get to see this soon, but we're working on it. it takes some time.

[Mother Nuru.]

we're not going to attack people here, im going to make that clear one time only. thank you. foxka and I spoke in dms and things are okay, we spoke in a middle ground. so please do not jump to eithers defense.

[Tedgp908]

You are absolutely able to report admins. The staff abuse section is for this. Nobody is above anyone here. Not even admins. If you feel that they are deserving of punishment, post here. If you’re not comfortable doing so, message dink, or an admin you trust. It will be handled. Keep in mind this doesn’t guarantee it’ll go your way, just it will be handled properly.

First of all Gabe, I would like to thank you for your time in creating this post. It answers a lot of my questions. I would like to note one thing however.


In this community the admins are seen as the top of the hierarchy to the community. This community for all intents and purposes does not have a Co-Owner or Owner. If someone was to report something to Dinkleberg, they would think he would do nothing, because he doesn't seem to have much interest in the community to begin with. Members of this community feel like he would understand the intricately of the issues they are bringing to him because he is not active to understand these issues. On the lines of reporting admins in the staff abuse section this falls under the same issue reporting directly to the owner, nobody has seen him get involved in abuse reports. Dinkleberg simply feels out of reach of this community, and has not shown initiative to the community to resolve these issues. This community doesn't have a leader, it has a group of leaders. What do you do when one of the leaders is abusing? Not much because there is nobody else to go to.

[Mother Nuru.]

You are absolutely able to report admins. The staff abuse section is for this. Nobody is above anyone here. Not even admins. If you feel that they are deserving of punishment, post here. If you’re not comfortable doing so, message dink, or an admin you trust. It will be handled. Keep in mind this doesn’t guarantee it’ll go your way, just it will be handled properly.

First of all Gabe, I would like to thank you for your time in creating this post. It answers a lot of my questions. I would like to note one thing however.


In this community the admins are seen as the top of the hierarchy to the community. This community for all intensive purposes does not have a Co-Owner or Owner. If someone was to report something to Dinkleberg, they would think he would do nothing, because he doesn't seem to have much interest in the community to begin with. Members of this community feel like he would understand the intricately of the issues they are bringing to him because he is not active to understand these issues. On the lines of reporting admins in the staff abuse section this falls under the same issue reporting directly to the owner, nobody has seen him get involved in abuse reports. Dinkleberg simply feels out of reach of this community, and has not shown initiative to the community to resolve these issues. This community doesn't have a leader, it has a group of leaders. What do you do when one of the leaders is abusing? Not much because there is nobody else to go to.

I'm going to ask him to respond to this one if that's okay.

[§6SEMBER_UNO]

Im mostly satisfied with this response as such I will not fuel the fire and leave with this one final recommendation.

Hold staff to the highest standards.

The staff is the face of the community. What you guys do and say sets the tone. When staff members go around shit talking each other on discord other people see it and assume its ok to follow. Toxicity breeds toxicity. If you want to advocate against it then dont be part of it. Im not singling out any one specific staff member rather asking all staff to set a higher standard for themselves.

The only other thing I want to add (since were quoting court cases) is that evidence that cannot be submitted cannot be used against the defendant. Maybe this should of been handled with a jury selected from the community so at least some of us would have some insight to the issue. I don't know and I guess its too late now.

As a final word I would like to personally apologize to @queef commando for singling him out in the original thread. As I've said before, I have had zero interaction with you. I was trying to put a face to the name and make sure the pot wasn't calling the kettle black. I will say tho that if these bans were handled traditionally with individual ban requests instead of being batched into one shit show things would of been different.

[Seeker]

I plan on leaving soon and making a small post just to say so but just as a small gesture:

But Nuru as FACE of the community? For her well detailed, thought out responses, accepting of responsibility, communication, and levelheadedness through all of this?

Not as a community leader or head or anything, but I personally believe, if anything, she represents what a good staff member and community member should be. I have my biases towards certain members and staff, I know a lot of us do, but I think many of us (with a select few in disagreement) can agree, that throughout all of this, she has handled this with incredible poise and kindness. I know this has been stressful, especially since TTT isn't even her side of things, but she has done a tremendous job doing what this community really lacks from the top down and back up:

Communicating.

Thanks, Nuru.

[Demi Lovato's Heroin Spoon]

"From what I see, actively going out to target someone does not equal disagreeing with them, no matter how far you place your foot forward. I get it, we can't see all the details, so prepare for us to talk about what we can see rather than what we're told to trust you guys."

A reiteration of my point that I made. I haven't seen any solid evidence- that's being redacted for the sake of others- that these players actively went out of their way to harass players. I'm sorry, but I could never see a strong projection of an opinion as harassment. I don't know what these people actually did, and I don't think anybody has except for those directly involved. The problem lies with abandoning a core set of members, Laced and Wild probably being the most dedicated players I've seen. [Read the C. S. Lewis quote] You're absolutely right, keeping the environment positive does promote traffic. The issue many people feel with these bans is how local they were to certain scenarios and how a few individual personalities felt, not how it influenced an entire server. I don't see a heavy relevance to that influence, and I'm sure neither do a lot of people. Laced, Wild, and Lily, in my experience of playing on the server, we're perfectly great players to everyone who would play at the time, and as much as I can assume with what's given, I don't believe the problems laid with them creating a disturbance to a larger pool of players than it did to a handful selection.

It's ok you agree with the measures taken, but I'm part of the large majority that does not. With recent events, some really good people have decided to not participate in server relations because of how the means justified an end. This does seem like a goal of encouraged sensitivity, and I personally disagree with it. This was a draconian punishment to a lot of people, and from the words of those banned, out of nowhere. I've seen this problem on a server I managed and actively played on, and this was an early pull at a fix. In it's totality, from the forum posts, we've lost a large total of dedicated members. I feel bad for Ckg pulling the weight of the other near double digit list of staff members that decided to also pack their bags and leave. Cull the herd, I suppose.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

I plan on leaving soon and making a small post just to say so but just as a small gesture:

But Nuru as FACE of the community? For her well detailed, thought out responses, accepting of responsibility, communication, and levelheadedness through all of this?

Not as a community leader or head or anything, but I personally believe, if anything, she represents what a good staff member and community member should be. I have my biases towards certain members and staff, I know a lot of us do, but I think many of us (with a select few in disagreement) can agree, that throughout all of this, she has handled this with incredible poise and kindness. I know this has been stressful, especially since TTT isn't even her side of things, but she has done a tremendous job doing what this community really lacks from the top down and back up:

Communicating.

Thanks, Nuru.

^^Couldn't have said it better myself