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+--- Thread: Grapple Hook/Bhopping (/showthread.php?tid=13246)
Grapple Hook/Bhopping - dero - 12-10-2020
So we ban the grapple hook exploit because it is an unintentional side affect to the grapple's mechanics. It gives whoever is executing it an advantage, that being speed. My question for everyone reading this is "Why don't we punish bhopping?". I personally do not think we should punish for bhopping. It is incredibly skill based and is not easy to get good at. The grapple's advantage is that it gives near unkillable speeds to the player executing it. But, doesn't bhopping do the same? Bhopping is an unintentional exploit of the source engine that also grants near unkillable speeds to the player executing it. They both require buildup, however the grapple's is much shorter with the drawback of not being able to defend yourself wile bhopping requires a more gradual speed buildup with the bonus of being able to shoot anyone that might try to kill you. You can cancel both at any time, the grapple by releasing the grapple early and bhopping by not jumping. What I'm getting at is why is one acceptable but one isn't? Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - Jedasis - 12-10-2020
Personally, I don't see much of an issue with flying around with the grappling hook either, tbh. It takes an incredible amount of skill to actually do it. If BHopping is allowed, I honestly don't see why grapple exploiting shouldn't be either.
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - ^aethy - 12-10-2020
Honestly in my opinion I personally believe bhopping should be banned as well to be honest.
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - lacer - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 05:46 PM)derp Wrote: So we ban the grapple hook exploit because it is an unintentional side affect to the grapple's mechanics. It gives whoever is executing it an advantage, that being speed. My question for everyone reading this is "Why don't we punish bhopping?". I personally do not think we should punish for bhopping. It is incredibly skill based and is not easy to get good at. The grapple's advantage is that it gives near unkillable speeds to the player executing it. But, doesn't bhopping do the same? Bhopping is an unintentional exploit of the source engine that also grants near unkillable speeds to the player executing it. They both require buildup, however the grapple's is much shorter with the drawback of not being able to defend yourself wile bhopping requires a more gradual speed buildup with the bonus of being able to shoot anyone that might try to kill you. You can cancel both at any time, the grapple by releasing the grapple early and bhopping by not jumping. What I'm getting at is why is one acceptable but one isn't? Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.The day we punish for bhopping is the day the mp9 users win the server
We also don't punish people who crouchspam and crouch jump into the ceiling with the jump pack. Both are unintentional things that are stupid and give the player doing it an unfair advantage.
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - ^aethy - 12-10-2020
^ Same argument can be made with ceiling head, half your body goes into the ceiling making it literally impossible to headshot yet we don't treat it as an exploit.
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - Battons - 12-10-2020
I sit in the mindset of both are used to gain unintentional speeds and by banning one and leaving the other you just make it so the highly skilled players have less people to challenge them.
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - Nicol Bolas - 12-10-2020
I'm at work but I can make a better response to this once I am not. Essentially it comes down to a balance between how competitive we actually want the server to be, how fun we want it to be, and the limitations of the 15+ year old source engine.
But I'll make a dedicated response soon :)
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - lacer - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 06:35 PM)Nicol Wrote: I'm at work but I can make a better response to this once I am not. Essentially it comes down to a balance between how competitive we actually want the server to be, how fun we want it to be, and the limitations of the 15+ year old source engine.
But I'll make a dedicated response soon :)
head ceiling ≠ competitive and fun, remove the jump pack
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - GamerErnie46257 - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 06:35 PM)Nicol Wrote: I'm at work but I can make a better response to this once I am not. Essentially it comes down to a balance between how competitive we actually want the server to be, how fun we want it to be, and the limitations of the 15+ year old source engine.It can be fun... if... you know...
But I'll make a dedicated response soon :)
RE: Grapple Hook/Bhopping - Minder - 12-10-2020
Radical Larry head (or to be more precise: the crouchjump bug) could probably be fixed with some dev attention, but I don't think there is much of that to go around. Even if the jump pack gets removed you'll still be able to do it. There are even more cancerous permutations where you repeatedly crouch and uncrouch, which jigs your head up and down. The crux of the problem there is really crouchjumping. Maybe fixing this could be as simple as disabling crouch inputs while a player is in the air.
I can also entertain an argument for disabling bhopping, because it's trivially easy to use first-page-of-Google autohotkey scripts to spam +jump at rates far beyond human ability. The server simply operates on an honor system of hoping that people won't do that.
Nicol is right about the age of Garry's Mod being a detractor in terms of having your cake and eating it too (having fun + competitive integrity.)