[chibill]

Milk, since you left a reply, whats your veiw on him aim thru a wall as he was going down a ladder and shooting the prop that we was aiming at as soon as he can actually shoot at them?

[Super Milk Chan]

Milk, since you left a reply, whats your veiw on him aim thru a wall as he was going down a ladder and shooting the prop that we was aiming at as soon as he can actually shoot at them?

Can you point out the time stamp in what video?

Edit: I did point this out

Video two
"0:28. The bag as a player sticks out as a sore thumb as it all ways sit in a way that defies gravity. All so the player did not use the F4 menu to change into that prop, you can tell by the bag next to the player being moved from its original spot, yet another thing that will stick out to an old player on such a focal of a map."

It's very hard to tell if he was in fact aiming at it though the wall since it's in 3rd person.

[RussEfarmer]

I have had the opportunity to look at the evidence on my computer in full HD instead of my phone, I retract my statement of it being a little sus, I did not see anything suspicious about fofab's gameplay. The RPG to the trash was kinda clutch but thats it.

Keep in mind 4000 hours... the cig kill was easy since nobody knocked them over yet. Coffee decanter kill is easy for the same reason, those shelves are noob bait for props. Box kill, saying WTF?!?! in admin chat after killing a gigantic fucking box in the middle of the hallway is hilarious, thats like a pablo_gonzales2013 level spot. The 3 kills on ph_backyard I don't know how you thought were sus at all. Beeline down the ladder and shoot him immediately... yeah because there isn't supposed to be two of that prop there? Kinda what you do in this game. Other two were just dumb spots.

As a previous moderator I would NOT have felt comfortable banning someone based on this evidence. I think Fofab should be unbanned and given an apology. The only logical explanation for this ban existing is in bad faith... perhaps the staff team is getting jealous of fofab's skills?

[Norm Minder]

Suspicion alone is not enough to justify banning a player. Just because someone plays well doesn’t mean they are cheating ? Or because the "obscene kill to death ratio" "using low-end graphic settings for an advantage" garbage ?

If bans are issued without any strong evidence, good players could be wrongfully removed. This not only affects the banned player but also the community as a whole. False bans can create an environment of fear, where skilled players feel like they might be punished simply for being good at the game.

I mean this guy has over 3k hours on this server. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew every prop location memorized on his head every map tbh.
I'm not going to vote for Uban since I don't play ph anymore, but this is wild.

Proof is simply just not enough

[Bird (2)]

Sorry for the late response. I've been inactive in PH for the past months. 

Anyway, I will admit that I did have suspicions about Fofab in the past, and it had come up a few times, but I don't see anything about the videos that seem to be off for me. Like others say, Fofab is an experienced player, and the maps that are shown in the videos are common maps that are played. If you played the maps a lot, you would often know which ones are players. (This is from my own experience when I played almost every weekends) If the map was something uncommon/hardly played, then I can understand the suspicions.

It also doesn't help that it's 3rd POV as it can be very hard to tell where the player is facing. I don't know anything about lowering the graphics, so I am not commenting on it. I do believe that this isn't strong enough for a ban, only enough to be questioned.

[Avi]

* Snip Snip*

Your breakdown of each video presented describes almost exactly what I would have said, your analysis is spot on.

As a former prop hunter with thousands of hours across a few communities, I don't see anything that stands out in these videos as "weird gameplay" or "suspicious" with how Fofab goes around finding props.  You can see in every clip presented that he is checking every cheeky and very well known spot that players hide in, even some of the ones that only experienced players would know to check.  I will admit there were times I used to be suspicious of Fofab's gameplay as well, but looking back, a lot of it is just experienced gameplay on his part.

The maps in these videos are very common played maps on this server and others too.  I would reasonably expect that someone with that many hours would have great map/prop spawn knowledge (that's almost what got me banned the first time I ever played this server because I knew the map well and got 11 kills in two hunter rounds).  That being said, I think that answers a lot of the "how did he know the prop was there" questions that people ask.

Is there any other proof that shows more definitive examples of the suspected cheating?  I don't think there is anything here, and it would be unfair to keep Fofab banned on these videos alone.  I also don't agree with the ban reason "untrusted gameplay ban" either.  It implies there is no definitive proof of cheating, rather the ban was off of suspicion/hunch (which has never been a reason to ban someone).

+1 for full unban unless further proof is provided

[J@CK XDDD]

None of these clips had anything that really stood out, i think the dude has alot of hours and just has a good idea how people will play certain maps, i have alot of hours in cs so i have a good idea and foundation that others dont have in the game and thus can figure things out quicker then others with less. I dont think its truly any different here with prophunt or any game really. I think my man just knows ball a bit better and it made some people upset.

[dong]

Milk Chan hit it right on the money tbh. I have not played PH in a long time, but I think this was mainly a mix of Fofab being highly experienced and the resolution thing. I do not see anything to indicate he is legitimately cheating. My vote will provide nothing of substance since I am essentially a ghost, but I think this ban was rushed and trying to double down on it is goofy.

[TDawg4]

I just want to add: We really appreciate the comments and feedback especially from the experienced prop hunt people. Something for everyone to keep in mind is that when someone is really good being 100% on whether someone is cheating can be actually impossible, and a ban from that isn't necessarily in bad faith. I mean how many ban "drama" threads have we had in TTT over the years with really great players who (i am pretty sure) were not actually cheating. At the same time that allowed probably others but players like Muddy who (i am pretty sure now was cheating) sneak by for so long because we don't want to make the same mistake. Sometimes you just watch the same clip enough times and can't see it another way and need someone else to tell you its not what it looks like or that it is what it looks like.

Again as someone who has like 2 hours on PH in 9 years really appreciate the input and explanations.

[icey]

prophunt is dying we shouldnt even be banning real hackers.