[茶 Tea]

i don't really care either way but it's kinda goofy for some of you to suggest he engage on the forums or discord of a game he's banned from. doubly so for prophunt and murder.

[dong]

Personal thoughts and questions aside, +1 for an unban. A reasonable amount of time has passed for "growth" since the last ban. It wouldn't be difficult to reban considering current staff activity.

[bunniey]

For the record, I do heavily disagree with the notion that he has to put himself in the incredibly uncomfortable position of reaching out to and engaging with people that obviously dislike him just for the chance at coming back, especially when people who have only ever engaged with him on appeals because they are newer already have a bias against him based on what they've heard. It's definitely stacking the cards against someone and saying I told you so when they can't make the cut. I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. We have admins who have come back from bans/community bans/heavy talks about being community banned (the last one is me), who have come back to do be heavily involved in positive ways in the community. Sometimes giving someone another opportunity in a fair way is all you need.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

I can see where different sides are coming from with this. Personally, I’ve seen Caribou have the capability to act well so I think he is capable of acting okay if unbanned. It’s more a matter of if he can keep that up, because I have also seen him act fine once then be toxic the next moment. But the community is in a different (and better overall) spot now than it has been in the past. A lot of the factors that caused past issues seem to be in the past. Because of the history I think caution should still be taken, but I’m fine with him having another shot at this point with restrictions. +1 with max warn points

[Im A Bald Eagle]

Some takeaways that I've gathered reading through this thread: 


Can't blame Cimag for holding a grudge after being bullied.

I'm not very swayed by this thread when you added literally nothing to your reason for appealing since last time, and everyone else seems to be doing the talking for you (considering how you've had a tendency to talk yourself out of everyone's good favor when you do talk).

Additionally, most of your support has been from people who fall into one or more of these boxes:

• Are no longer active
  
• Are only recently active again
  
• Play TTT to play TTT, not to interact with the community
  

And while there's nothing necessarily wrong with any of those things, their word is a lot less convincing when we consider that most of your warns and bans have come on the grounds of harassment & bullying, some of the most anti-social rule infractions we have. It'd help a lot more to have support from people who demonstrably care about this community as it currently is.

In spite of that, I have seen some people who, while historically having wanted nothing to do with you, came out in support of this appeal, which is pretty shocking.

I don't really have a dog in this race since you've never targeted me with your harassment, and I'm not super active on the server at the moment, so I don't feel right passing judgement here. 

If this appeal does get accepted, for the love of god, don't harass people anymore. Nobody wins in that scenario.

[Market Down]

I'm going to reverse course here and change my vote to a +0.

I haven't had the experience of playing with you on the server, Caribou. Many people here I talk to on a weekly basis or more were a stark -1 and I had taken their thoughts and opinions into account on this and weighed in on a situation I honestly don't know enough about. If you're unbanned, and are able to be a positive force on the server I'd be happy to see it. I do think that due to previous history and reading through the reasons for your previous bans, there should be some restrictions to an unban- starting off with some warn points in your pocket. I don't however, think that you should be only 2 points away from a perma here as others have suggested. Should definitely be more than that.

Should you be given the opportunity, don't waste it.

[GAMER]

Hello chat its me GAMER :)
i would like to contribute to this discussion. by adding my +1
I have not read a single message in this thread except for the first one by Caribou,

That being said i would like to say it has been a fairly long time since he was banned and his patience and commitment should be seen in good light, whats wrong with wanting to play a good game on a good server :)

I know there is a lot of controversy for some reason but i have never had any issues with Caribou and i think thats because im a nice dude that doesnt have gamer rage in a game thats like 20 years old.
If ur just chill and nice to ppl they have no reason not to be chill and nice to you back. and what i think happens is Caribou is a pro gamer which causes people to get upset at the skill gap . So they say something not chill or nice which eventually leads to caribou responding in a similar manor, and that causes arguments. Yes maybe he did cross some lines with things he said but idk cause i dont care. and thats my point if everyone just games and doesnt care too much, then theres no reason to be getting upset :)
ITs like everyone forgot the golden rule, just treat others how you want to be treated. Ive never played with caribou outside of ttt or spoken to him outside of ttt but hes been nothing but nice and respectful to me because i treat him the same.
To me it seems like a lot of these issues started cause people just cant hang. but idk tho thats just my thoughts. Thanks for reading :3 *meows and purrs*

[HONG]

For the record, I do heavily disagree with the notion that he has to put himself in the incredibly uncomfortable position of reaching out to and engaging with people that obviously dislike him just for the chance at coming back, especially when people who have only ever engaged with him on appeals because they are newer already have a bias against him based on what they've heard. It's definitely stacking the cards against someone and saying I told you so when they can't make the cut. I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. We have admins who have come back from bans/community bans/heavy talks about being community banned (the last one is me), who have come back to do be heavily involved in positive ways in the community. Sometimes giving someone another opportunity in a fair way is all you need.

+1 cimag just doesn't know how appeals work i fear. caribou was given a permanent ban with appeal for a reason, and many of the people here claiming he should prove himself through prophunt/murder/etc also don't play those and wouldn't even be there to see the "change" they claim it would help show

bunniey thaye and frost make great points on this and the bias/sentiment issue; if caribou were to start spontaneously interacting with the forums those interactions would feel disingenuous and motivated purely to demonstrate the fact that its an "alternative" for showing activity and good behavior

[chibill]

I personally feel its right to point out the only times he interacted on the server at all when he was unbanned was literally when je was harassing people or flaming our staff, otherwise he would just play silently, at least that was my expense on the server.

[caribou]

Stoke every time he has been perma banned for hitting the max awarn threshold he has claimed he has changed in the appeal, then we unban him eventually and the cycle repeats.   

How many times of someone claiming they have changed but proving they haven't at all is enough?

I'd argue a decent chunk of those warns/bans, like the one that resulted from skullfire warning him for "harassment" which led to a perm ban, was weak as hell and and basically hypocritical harassment from the staff instead (who himself has gotten banned for actually harassing others).

You do know Caribou has literally 1 warn from Skullfire. And that warn is valid.  Additionally it is not fair to the 9 staff that have given him the 10 warns he has to be saying they were harassing him by giving him them.

yes, obviously, but my point is that framing it as "he has three permanent bans" when at least one of them is from a trash warn that put him in that range is disingenuous

All the warns he had that pushed him over the point threshold (which between this ban and the pervious perma ban he successfully appealed , had actual increased in points needed for a perma ban from awarn) were warranted.  His latest ban was mostly caused by repeatedly flaming our staff over temporarily mishandling a report. Which got him a 6 point flaming warn, pushing him over the 32 point threshold.

The interaction in which I flamed a staff member over mishandling a report was never really explained to me, I don't remember what exactly happened. Can you explain it to me please?