[Damien1579]

As many of you may know, the topic I will be talking about is a hot topic at the moment, but that's okay because I hope that we can create a dialogue that brings us away from the drama that happened and towards the goal of potential rule changes or clarification.


I think that we should not warn for the general use of white slurs like Cracker, Honky, Peckerwood, e.t.c. I think we should be warning for the very extremes, like if someone were to say "You stupid fucking cracker" then rdming them. The same should go for general statements. I think "I hate white people" should be allowed to say but not something like "I think all white people should be murdered.". I think that we should be treating Anti-White "Racism" like how we do with the Soft A version of the N Word, even though IMO that version is way worse to say. 


What do you guys think, should we warn for this stuff like how I presented or should we warn for this stuff like other derogatory warns? Let me know in the replies, and please keep it civil of course because again, I do think it would be nice to have us reach a goal of clarification or rule changes as opposed to this issue being ignored or put on the backburner.


Thank you for coming to my white bread talk.

[TDawg4]

Uhm. I get we are coming off the whole Pluto thing but this goes way to far. The goal of rules in the community is to set a window of acceptable behavior where we make make this a good place to be for members of the community.

So far "cracker" has been an occasional thing usually someone talking to their friend or something, and hasn't really been used as some sort of attack against anyone on the server. If we want to make it officially like soft-a I dont really have and issue. But it will be enforced the same way we enforce soft-a.

The rest. Yeah no, I think that one we have enough community members that would be made uncomfortable for it to not be worth it. And two, those words have not been used in a positive way at all least here on dinks and I dont think that will change.

Personally, for this conversation how we are labeling what is racist or not doesn't really matter. We can call it prejudice or flaming or harassment. If you are attacking someone or even a general based on a characteristic that they cant do anything about and that alone people wont say it but they will be made uncomfortable and not want to play here. They will feel less than and unwanted.

If every day we have people on the server spamming "cracker" I think it should be disallowed same if it occurred with soft-a.

If you are in the camp that racism is about power dynamics thats fine. If you are in the came that racism is just any kind of prejudice thats also fine. These two things can coexist because at some point the bottom line is there needs to be a baselevel of respect for fellow community members. And if enough people are made uncomfortable because the jokes are over all they see is people attacking other people for being white. Then I think as a community we can ignore some of the sucky current global and national issues, and just say yeah im not going to project that onto ever person who joins our server. Who might not even be from an area where that is relevant.

tldr. Cracker like soft-a is fine to me. If it becomes a real issue where people are being attacked especially if some of the stuff from the last couple days  continues. It should be revisited.

If someone pisses you off or other similar thing and you call them a cracker you will get a 6 point warn of some variety.

[Market Down]

Okey doke, I'm gonna make a long response to this because I'm generally sick as FUCK of the topic popping up every few months and it finally culminated in this stupid, ugly, head that led to a staff member demoted, and several players warned. Rule 2 is very direct, and has little room for interpretation.

2) Be Respectful to Other Players
Do not flame, troll, or harass other players. Do not use slurs or other derogatory language. Respect others’ boundaries and do not try to intentionally make others upset or uncomfortable. Do not instigate or egg on arguments. Do not single out a player to repeatedly target, such as going out of your way to knife them every time you’re a traitor. Do not use props to trap or troll other players or to kill players pre-round, unless they consent to it.

It goes on to be described further in the staff guidelines:

Racism/Sexism/Derogatory Language/Slurs - 6 Points
Derogatory language is NOT tolerated here on Dinks. This includes Racism, Sexism, Anti-Semitism, Homophobia, Transphobia, and other forms of bigotry. This applies to all forms of communication within the game, as well as usernames and profile pictures. Once again, we provide a safe and clean environment for players to come and have a fun time on our servers. Racism is defined as any type of offensive language that is directed at other people based on race or ethnicity. Sexism is any type of language used to discriminate or stereotype based on gender; this is most commonly seen against women on the server. 

Regardless of whether or not you think it should be punishable, "cracker" can be considered a slur. Merriam Webster defines it specifically as, "an insulting and contemptuous term for a poor, white, usually Southern person." The rule says not to use slurs, or other derogatory language. It, by definition, is derogatory. Whether or not racism against white people can be considered racism due to the power dynamic in American/World History is another conversation, and not one I'm looking to have with a bunch of strangers on the internet right now. I just want to discuss whether or not it would be considered derogatory, which it is. 

I would prefer our community stand against hate speech as a whole. I understand why some people might get offended by hearing "I hate white people" or "I hate men" or any other "I hate (demographic I happen to belong to)." Saying that you hate a demographic is hate speech, and furthers a divide that has been present for way too long. It prevents any reaching across the aisle and ignores the human behind all of that.

At the end of the day, it's not respectful. It's not kind, and if it goes past someone else's boundaries and it makes them upset or uncomfortable then it DOES break the rules. It personally doesn't offend me and I (as a white man) would participate in the "I hate white people" and "I hate men" jokes. A lot of white men do make people uncomfortable. A lot of white people don't season their food. A lot of white people have done a lot of fucked up shit and there's plenty of reason to come after them, specifically, for those things. It doesn't offend me, and I understand why people have those opinions.

Dinkleberg's TTT | Fast Downloads! | Staff Needed shouldn't be the platform to make a statement about it. This is a place we play a video game that's almost 20 years old. Let's have fun and stop digging at each other, holy shit. There's enough bullshit in the world.

Love you guys, thanks for making this community what it is. Even when it pisses me off.

[☁ Pluto]

Okey doke, I'm gonna make a long response to this because I'm generally sick as FUCK of the topic popping up every few months and it finally culminated in this stupid, ugly, head that led to a staff member demoted, and several players warned. Rule 2 is very direct, and has little room for interpretation.

2) Be Respectful to Other Players
Do not flame, troll, or harass other players. Do not use slurs or other derogatory language. Respect others’ boundaries and do not try to intentionally make others upset or uncomfortable. Do not instigate or egg on arguments. Do not single out a player to repeatedly target, such as going out of your way to knife them every time you’re a traitor. Do not use props to trap or troll other players or to kill players pre-round, unless they consent to it.

It goes on to be described further in the staff guidelines:

Racism/Sexism/Derogatory Language/Slurs - 6 Points
Derogatory language is NOT tolerated here on Dinks. This includes Racism, Sexism, Anti-Semitism, Homophobia, Transphobia, and other forms of bigotry. This applies to all forms of communication within the game, as well as usernames and profile pictures. Once again, we provide a safe and clean environment for players to come and have a fun time on our servers. Racism is defined as any type of offensive language that is directed at other people based on race or ethnicity. Sexism is any type of language used to discriminate or stereotype based on gender; this is most commonly seen against women on the server. 

Regardless of whether or not you think it should be punishable, "cracker" can be considered a slur. Merriam Webster defines it specifically as, "an insulting and contemptuous term for a poor, white, usually Southern person." The rule says not to use slurs, or other derogatory language. It, by definition, is derogatory. Whether or not racism against white people can be considered racism due to the power dynamic in American/World History is another conversation, and not one I'm looking to have with a bunch of strangers on the internet right now. I just want to discuss whether or not it would be considered derogatory, which it is. 

I would prefer our community stand against hate speech as a whole. I understand why some people might get offended by hearing "I hate white people" or "I hate men" or any other "I hate (demographic I happen to belong to)." Saying that you hate a demographic is hate speech, and furthers a divide that has been present for way too long. It prevents any reaching across the aisle and ignores the human behind all of that.

At the end of the day, it's not respectful. It's not kind, and if it goes past someone else's boundaries and it makes them upset or uncomfortable then it DOES break the rules. It personally doesn't offend me and I (as a white man) would participate in the "I hate white people" and "I hate men" jokes. A lot of white men do make people uncomfortable. A lot of white people don't season their food. A lot of white people have done a lot of fucked up shit and there's plenty of reason to come after them, specifically, for those things. It doesn't offend me, and I understand why people have those opinions.

Dinkleberg's TTT | Fast Downloads! | Staff Needed shouldn't be the platform to make a statement about it. This is a place we play a video game that's almost 20 years old. Let's have fun and stop digging at each other, holy shit. There's enough bullshit in the world.

Love you guys, thanks for making this community what it is. Even when it pisses me off.

It's okay guys, they hated Jesus, too. I am willing to forgive.

[茶 Tea]

the reason why racial slurs are bad is that they carry behind them the weight of all the various kinds of violence that have been perpetrated in the interest of upholding white supremacy. you can call cracker a racial slur if you want but it broadens the meaning so much as to make it completely useless. imo cracker should be treated like any other mean word (asshole, dickhead, etc). because that's all it is.

[moocow]

the reason why racial slurs are bad is that they carry behind them the weight of all the various kinds of violence that have been perpetrated in the interest of upholding white supremacy. you can call cracker a racial slur if you want but it broadens the meaning so much as to make it completely useless.

for a brief history lesson to help build some context around the word "cracker" being used to refer to white people in america specifically- the term comes from the sounds the whips made when cracked against the skin of enslaved individuals, the slave masters were referred to by many slang terms and "cracker" is one of those terms, again because of the sounds the whips made when used against enslaved individuals. personally, i dont consider it to be derogatory as they were used to refer to people in the position of power and not as a way of dehumanizing an entire group of people solely based off of their skin tone and appearance.

[☁ Pluto]

the reason why racial slurs are bad is that they carry behind them the weight of all the various kinds of violence that have been perpetrated in the interest of upholding white supremacy. you can call cracker a racial slur if you want but it broadens the meaning so much as to make it completely useless.

for a brief history lesson to help build some context around the word "cracker" being used to refer to white people in america specifically- the term comes from the sounds the whips made when cracked against the skin of enslaved individuals, the slave masters were referred to by many slang terms and "cracker" is one of those terms, again because of the sounds the whips made when used against enslaved individuals. personally, i dont consider it to be derogatory as they were used to refer to people in the position of power and not as a way of dehumanizing an entire group of people solely based off of their skin tone and appearance.

The way that the word is used now is specifically derogatory to white people in positions of power.

You can just say what you mean: "It's okay to be racist to white people as they are in power."


Edit: 
You're actually just wrong about this, too. Looks like it was another word that was taken and used after white farmers used whips on cattle. Sad to see the complete distortion of history here... (Attachment added)

[HONG]

enough man

[茶 Tea]

the reason why racial slurs are bad is that they carry behind them the weight of all the various kinds of violence that have been perpetrated in the interest of upholding white supremacy. you can call cracker a racial slur if you want but it broadens the meaning so much as to make it completely useless.

for a brief history lesson to help build some context around the word "cracker" being used to refer to white people in america specifically- the term comes from the sounds the whips made when cracked against the skin of enslaved individuals, the slave masters were referred to by many slang terms and "cracker" is one of those terms, again because of the sounds the whips made when used against enslaved individuals. personally, i dont consider it to be derogatory as they were used to refer to people in the position of power and not as a way of dehumanizing an entire group of people solely based off of their skin tone and appearance.

The way that the word is used now is specifically derogatory to white people in positions of power.

You can just say what you mean: "It's okay to be racist to white people as they are in power."

yes actually, if what you mean by "racist" is "hurt my feelings", it is okay to be mean and hurt people's feelings if the extent of the damage done is to hurt their feelings. sorry that your feelings were hurt from when you were being an asshole and someone told you you were being an asshole. it happens sometimes. i hope we can all learn and grow from this incident.

[☁ Pluto]

the reason why racial slurs are bad is that they carry behind them the weight of all the various kinds of violence that have been perpetrated in the interest of upholding white supremacy. you can call cracker a racial slur if you want but it broadens the meaning so much as to make it completely useless.

for a brief history lesson to help build some context around the word "cracker" being used to refer to white people in america specifically- the term comes from the sounds the whips made when cracked against the skin of enslaved individuals, the slave masters were referred to by many slang terms and "cracker" is one of those terms, again because of the sounds the whips made when used against enslaved individuals. personally, i dont consider it to be derogatory as they were used to refer to people in the position of power and not as a way of dehumanizing an entire group of people solely based off of their skin tone and appearance.

The way that the word is used now is specifically derogatory to white people in positions of power.

You can just say what you mean: "It's okay to be racist to white people as they are in power."

yes actually, if what you mean by "racist" is "hurt my feelings", it is okay to be mean and hurt people's feelings if the extent of the damage done is to hurt their feelings. sorry that your feelings were hurt from when you were being an asshole and someone told you you were being an asshole. it happens sometimes. i hope we can all learn and grow from this incident.

What I mean by "racist" is that the intent being the word "cracker" is using it derogatorily against people, more specifically white people. Just like any other slur being used derogatorily against a person of color.

If the intent is to hate someone for something they cannot change, say the color of their skin, it's prejudice. In this specific scenario, it's classified as racism.

I hope you are able to comprehend the words I am speaking to you; as it doesn't seem like you're capable of reading considering that you aren't making much sense in the context of who you're responding to. No offense.