[jcope]

Others have asked that I make this an abuse thread instead of a ban appeal thread.

Offender's Name: Nazu(s)

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:436106669

What Server(s): TTT

Offender's Rank: Moderator

What They Did: Handled their own issue while another staff member was on, 8 warn points for RDM x1 and targeting

When They Did It: 5/23/23 between 5 and 6 PM Eastern

Potential Witnesses: Evan, Jawa

Proof (You must have VIDEO and/or Multiple Screenshots as proof*):
The purpose of this video is just to show Evan was on at the same time as the "Targeting". You'll have to take my word that the warn came within 1 minute of this clip and were given by Nazu. I go into more detail below regarding why I don't have more clips





Other/What happened:



Nazu was Detective, I was an innocent with low HP. I found another detective's health station and started healing. After being halfway done, Nazu started trying to heal, which stopped my healing. I asked maybe 2-3 times to stop and then shot them in the head. They reported, I wrote "don't be an ass". They didn't forgive.



Evan placed an 'aslay' on me a few rounds later, it was mid round IIRC and I was a traitor. I confirmed I had no "KOSable" reason to shoot them, but they were being a jerk and so I shot them. I bitched for a minute or two mostly because I dislike when people keep their reports when they know the RDM wasn't completely random. Was it slay worthy? Sure.



During my traitor round (aslay applied), I said I'd kill Nazu first on all my T rounds. I killed them that round.



A couple rounds later / new map I wrote in admin chat "tfw a mod/janitor keeps their report on you" or something along those lines. A couple rounds into that map I grabbed Nazu with my grappling hook (as a detective) and carried them near a spike pit, they broke loose before I could bring them in. They then stood still near the edge, knowing I was going to try again. I grabbed them to suspend them in the pit but they died. I got 8 warn points for targeting.



I RDM'd Nazu, I said I was going to target Nazu when I was a Traitor, and I RDM'd Nazu once more 4 or 5 rounds later. I "fucked around" and "found out".



I've seen other players RDM a lot more than twice in X rounds and get slayed, but I get 4/5 of a 1 day ban. I believe that is due to my actions being against a staff member, of whom I have no history or rapport. I knew I was breaking the rules. I knew it was likely there would be some punishment. I did not know, based on my experience with seeing other people's punishments, that I'd get 4/5 of a 1 day ban for my actions.



A couple points:

    I assume staff handle "warn system" judgements with discretion.

    If another staff member was handling Nazu's issue, I don't think I would have received 8 warn points

    If I acted against a non-staff member, I don't think Nazu would have awarded the same punishment

    I don't think a staff member should preside over their own report when another staff member is online

[lacer]

I'm not sure what you expected when you told Nazu you were going to target them and then did so.

But if Nazu was handling their own report with other staff online, that's a big no-no. There's no evidence for your other claims of bias. In fact, there's no evidence at all for anything you've said in this thread.

From the way this thread is worded, it belongs more in the abuse section. You're focusing more on Nazu and them punishing you for things you did rather than making your case (with evidence) as to why you shouldn't have been punished.

Just my thoughts.

[slater]

I would recommend putting this thread in the staff abuse section if you have a different issue since you aren’t really appealing anything unless it’s the appeal for a day ban which would be unnecessary. In any case, if you blatantly said you were going to specifically single out/target a person solely cause of a minor issue over the course of a few rounds & maps, then it would fall under targeting in the staff guidelines based on staff discretion and the definition of targeting. 

Anyways, nothing really to consider here for this thread since there’s not evidence of it, unless @Nazu(s) wants to speak on this issue.

Edit: Nazu shouldn’t be handling their own reports, unless there were no other staff members on during the time. With how the warn points work, you can view them in the staff guidelines found here. Based on your last warn which was a Earrape Queue and your current warn for targeting, a day ban would be sufficient.

[jcope]

Just to clarify

1. "Evan placed an 'aslay' on me a few rounds later, it was mid round IIRC and I was a traitor" = the aslay was placed, I was not killed mid round by Evan
2. No, I don't have a library of evidence showing previous players actions and their subsequent punishments which I base my claim of "inconsistent punishments"
3. I didn't post this in the abuse section because I wasn't sure if it was considered abuse.
4. I posted this here as a litmus test to see if others thought it was fair that Nazu was handling their own issues while other staff was online AND the level punishment they chose
5. If a web mod would like to move this to a different section, I have no issue with that.
6. It's hard to give proof of "I only did X action Y number of times" I could just exclude events. I would need to have a recording spanning 8 continuous rounds.
8. Evan (test mod) and Jawa can confirm Nazu applied the warns even though Evan was online and active.


Thank you both for your input and slater especially for the guidelines link. If others believe one round of me being a traitor and killing Nazu and one RDM counts as targeting then I believe the warn is valid. It's my uninformed opinion that targeting would imply repeated behavior over a larger sample size, but I'm not here to argue with what you all say is the established norm.

To be honest I was very annoyed when Jawa told me >10 points would be a 1 day ban. Essentially I'm getting a 1 day ban from playing literally 1 ear rape queue (murl can confirm) and killing a staff member twice.(the situation in this thread)

I do have a clip of be pulling Nazu into the pit. I use nvidia shadowplay so I lose clips if I don't use a hotkey to save it within 1 minute of the event. That's the reason I don't have all the events. I don't see the value in going through the effort of publishing that clip when I'm confirming I did it.

My intention isn't to argue, just stating my point of view here.

[lacer]

5. If a web mod would like to move this to a different section, I have no issue with that.

I'll go ahead and move it to Donor/Staff Abuse reports then. If possible, could you kinda restructure your OP to fit the format over there?

[Foxka]

Idk champ this whole thread seems like a giant cope to me. You did the thing you said you were going to do and got punished accordingly. As you already said yourself, you fucked around and found out.

-1 for abuse/point removal/whatever it is you're trying to do here

[jcope]

whatever it is you're trying to do here

I'm trying to better understand if what happened to me is typical and acceptable.

I've learned that Nazu should not have handled their own issue while other staff was online. I believe the only other valid point I have here for discussion is what is considered targeting? To be frank, I didn't know targeting was a thing. I said I was going to kill them every T round. I only did it once, and I never followed them around. It was two incidents for two rounds in the span of 4-6 rounds. I understand that I stated my intentions was to do it every time, but that's just not what happened. The question is, at what point is something considered targeting? The severity of the punishment and the verbiage of the guidelines reads, to me, as long term type of behavior. Please feel free to share your opinion of if the actual behavior (not what I said I was going to do) aligns with this definition of targeting. In regards, to "you said you were going to do it", plenty of people say "I'm going to RDM you next round or I'm going to kill so and so" It's not meant to be taken seriously and you wouldn't slay them for RDMing until the action took place.


"Targeting (8 points) is specifically singling out a player to act against IN-GAME across multiple maps or days. For example, if every time you are a traitor you knife a specific person this could be considered targeting. Another example would be following the same player every round. Repeatedly doing amounts of damage that are not quite reportable can also be considered targeting. "

[chelllman]

According to the guidelines, targeting is defined as:

"Targeting (8 points) is specifically singling out a player to act against IN-GAME across multiple maps or days. For example, if every time you are a traitor you knife a specific person this could be considered targeting. Another example would be following the same player every round. Repeatedly doing amounts of damage that are not quite reportable can also be considered targeting."

I would like to see evidence of this from Nazu before drawing any +/- conclusions. I think it's fair that with an 8 point warn that lasts 6 months, staff should retain evidence for this.

[happy]

Nazu shouldn't have been handling this himself, but it honestly sounds like a case of fuck around and find out

[Damien]

I feel like from the description from the OP alone that the targeting warn is valid since they did say they wanted to and were going to single out a single person for multiple rounds and basically did. The targeting warn should be all about intent imo and I think that the warn is valid. I'm waiting on evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Nazu is the guilty party (if there is one) to cast a vote but if there isn't then it's a -1 for any serious action towards Nazu. If they handled their own report without other staff on then that's excusable if it was a slayable reason but otherwise there should be a talking to with Nazu.