[Cosmic Tortoise]

I think @"Zephyr" is right in this situation. Upon review, nowhere does it say having a detective wep is KOS. It only says t-wep, and since the grapple is not exclusive, it isn’t a T-wep. Therefore the most that could have been done is a sus for having the equipment of a dead detective while unproven.

@Foxka and Helen were wrong; there isn’t anything in the rules that calls for this specific KOS.
Plus, he even called it out, it’s not like he secretly had it and didn’t tell anyone.

Feel free @Foxka to point out to us where it was allowed.

EDIT: I’d also like to point out that KOS exists for traitorous acts; having a called-out grappling hook isn’t inherently traitorous, unless he was grappling people.

A good rule of thumb for KOS is “can I definitively find a reason that that person is a T without doubt?”. If you read the list of KOSable acts, they all follow this trend. This situation does not.

Once again you are talking about something you know nothing about to cause trouble for us.

Strange, I didn't know items obtained from a detective were traitor weapons. I'll keep that in mind. Maybe you should think before you speak.

EDIT: In case you still don't get it, despite it being rather clearly stated in previous posts by both myself and others, the debate is how the grapple can be considered a T weapon if the detective also has access to it. It's a point noting that an item cannot be a T item if it isn't exclusive, and the rule thus cannot apply.

It's like calling purple red because it has red mixed into it, which doesn't make sense. By definition, and by extension, the rules, you are wrong @Foxka.

At best, it's a case-specific clarification that needs to be made. At worst, you're wrong. Either way, he shouldn't have been killed for it, because it wasn't' explicitly allowed.

EDIT 2:
@Foxka Also fuck yourself for accusing me of attempting to cause trouble. I was, up until you joining, having a civil debate on the interpretation of the rules. You were the first one here to use ad hominem  in this thread. That's not very mod-like.

To my knowledge the Grapple is shared between both D and T.  As in this round which I recall, I asked twice of the living detectives if they handed out a Grapple to anyone ( Ace always asks for one on the Canyon map ).  Neither of them said they did, so it was with high probabilty that an Unproven with a grapple either A, killed the Detective with a grapple loot, or 2, bought one themselves with a credit as a T.

This same map Bacardi was asking me to buy one and defib his dead body from the map bottom.  Grapples are risky to use on a map with few obstacles to block your view, so being spotted with one is more likely to call attention to what you are doing ( such as looting credits off a fallen body ).

[BacArdi M.]

I think @"Zephyr" is right in this situation. Upon review, nowhere does it say having a detective wep is KOS. It only says t-wep, and since the grapple is not exclusive, it isn’t a T-wep. Therefore the most that could have been done is a sus for having the equipment of a dead detective while unproven.

@Foxka and Helen were wrong; there isn’t anything in the rules that calls for this specific KOS.
Plus, he even called it out, it’s not like he secretly had it and didn’t tell anyone.

Feel free @Foxka to point out to us where it was allowed.

EDIT: I’d also like to point out that KOS exists for traitorous acts; having a called-out grappling hook isn’t inherently traitorous, unless he was grappling people.

A good rule of thumb for KOS is “can I definitively find a reason that that person is a T without doubt?”. If you read the list of KOSable acts, they all follow this trend. This situation does not.

Once again you are talking about something you know nothing about to cause trouble for us.

Strange, I didn't know items obtained from a detective were traitor weapons. I'll keep that in mind. Maybe you should think before you speak.

EDIT: In case you still don't get it, despite it being rather clearly stated in previous posts by both myself and others, the debate is how the grapple can be considered a T weapon if the detective also has access to it. It's a point noting that an item cannot be a T item if it isn't exclusive, and the rule thus cannot apply.

It's like calling purple red because it has red mixed into it, which doesn't make sense. By definition, and by extension, the rules, you are wrong @Foxka.

At best, it's a case-specific clarification that needs to be made. At worst, you're wrong. Either way, he shouldn't have been killed for it, because it wasn't' explicitly allowed.

EDIT 2:
@Foxka Also fuck yourself for accusing me of attempting to cause trouble. I was, up until you joining, having a civil debate on the interpretation of the rules. You were the first one here to use ad hominem  in this thread. That's not very mod-like.

To my knowledge the Grapple is shared between both D and T.  As in this round which I recall, I asked twice of the living detectives if they handed out a Grapple to anyone ( Ace always asks for one on the Canyon map ).  Neither of them said they did, so it was with high probabilty that an Unproven with a grapple either A, killed the Detective with a grapple loot, or 2, bought one themselves with a credit as a T.

This same map Bacardi was asking me to buy one and defib his dead body from the map bottom.  Grapples are risky to use on a map with few obstacles to block your view, so being spotted with one is more likely to call attention to what you are doing ( such as looting credits off a fallen body ).

I mean it would've been nice if you'd come down and defibbed me, but all seriousness aside, thanks for bringing a third-party view in to further explain why this happened and why it's 100% kosher.

[Mallakk]

It's still a T item. T's can buy it. I am here to clarify the ruling on the KOS, which is the purpose of the thread. It's not a debate thread. You accusing both myself and Helen of being wrong is an attack on our ability to interpret and enforce the rules. You need to stop.

Even if you are right you sound like a massive pompous asshole.

[La Flama Blanca]

Looks like there still is a lot of confusion. I would suggest that the TTT Co-Owner responds to this @DaKody and clarifies it and makes appropriate changes in the rules. Otherwise staff are still going to enforce the rules however they want. Most won't ever see this thread nor will they think to ask to confirm for reports.

[BacArdi M.]

It's still a T item. T's can buy it. I am here to clarify the ruling on the KOS, which is the purpose of the thread. It's not a debate thread. You accusing both myself and Helen of being wrong is an attack on our ability to interpret and enforce the rules. You need to stop.

Even if you are right you sound like a massive pompous asshole.

I mean, one could make the following argument (but actually I just wanted to be the first person to use a Super Troopers 2 gif on the forums):

---

Looks like there still is a lot of confusion. I would suggest that the TTT Co-Owner responds to this @DaKody and clarifies it and makes appropriate changes in the rules. Otherwise staff are still going to enforce the rules however they want. Most won't ever see this thread nor will they think to ask to confirm for reports.

Honestly I think the rules are pretty clear, the confusion is with people who either don't like them or don't understand them.