[dero]

 When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs.

What if a player has a reason to kill 3+ people? Shouldn't you wait for responses?

The logs showed the people he killed hadnt previously done anything. Shotlogs showed similarly.

[EyeSpyU]

okkay
First of all, you say you had called a test or KOS in VC. The server was EXTREMELY loud. I did not hear you, nor did anyone I was in discord with. For a test or KOS to be valid, they need to be able to hear or see that you are doing it. When the server is this loud it is best to use text chat. Because I did not hear you, I saw that 2 of the 4 people you killed reported you and I looked in logs (that I have if needed) and saw that at least 3 people did nothing before being killed. Additionally, non of the times in which you killed innocents was another detective shooting at you. When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs.
I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request.
Overall I give you a +0 since I don't care either way but if information comes up I may sway either way.

I'm not going to name this moderator since it seems protection of their identity is an intent of yours. I have my disagreements with this moderator who was legally but ultimately delaying the game numerous times. There was harassment on both sides, which you could hardly call harassment. Regardless, this isn't associated with the reasons I was banned.

"When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs." I understand that is standard practice and I respect it. You want to prevent further damage from being done. However, I'm still going to make an appeal and explain what the logs say. 

"The server was EXTREMELY loud. I did not hear you, nor did anyone I was in discord with." Regardless, the people I demanded to test did. Ville did. He responded in VC something along the lines of "Leave me alone" and ran away. oldalot didn't really respond since he was busy attempting to propblock/kill a detective. The detective shot him first and the 5 seconds had already elapsed so I killed oldalot for both of the following reasons: Test or KOS time had elapsed, and assisting the detective since he appeared to be in danger (since he was shooting the guy) 

"saw that at least 3 people did nothing before being killed" I had DNA on one if you looked in the logs. I'm still not clear on what happened in that confusing scenario. the guy didn't report me so clearly he had a misunderstanding of his own as well. 

"I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request." 

It seems that you tied back to what this moderator was saying about me in the Dinkleberg's Discord Voice Channel in an effort to undermine me and the credibility of my argument as well as my status so that you can justify your argument a bit more. Regardless of whether you did this intentionally or not, I ask that you understand that my only quarrel with this moderator is his/her playstyle in TTT, nothing else. This should not be a deciding factor at all in this appeal. It's worrying that you're bringing this up since now I'm afraid that personal biases are going to influence this appeal's fate.

[nopleez]

 When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs.

What if a player has a reason to kill 3+ people? Shouldn't you wait for responses?

The logs showed the people he killed hadnt previously done anything. Shotlogs showed similarly.

So you just assume he is going around rdming people without waiting for any responses? What if they were carrying T weapons or ran away from unid'd bodies?

[EyeSpyU]

 When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs.

What if a player has a reason to kill 3+ people? Shouldn't you wait for responses?

The logs showed the people he killed hadnt previously done anything. Shotlogs showed similarly.

It was "Test or KOS" Of course they hadn't done anything. At least for two of the players.

The third player had DNA on him for something he apparently had committed much earlier in the game. He didn't report me either.

[dong]

This should get locked and let the admins decide. No need to continue arguing both sides made their points. I'd say +1 for unban though

[dero]

okkay
First of all, you say you had called a test or KOS in VC. The server was EXTREMELY loud. I did not hear you, nor did anyone I was in discord with. For a test or KOS to be valid, they need to be able to hear or see that you are doing it. When the server is this loud it is best to use text chat. Because I did not hear you, I saw that 2 of the 4 people you killed reported you and I looked in logs (that I have if needed) and saw that at least 3 people did nothing before being killed. Additionally, non of the times in which you killed innocents was another detective shooting at you. When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs.
I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request.
Overall I give you a +0 since I don't care either way but if information comes up I may sway either way.

"I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request." 

It seems that you tied back to what this moderator was saying about me in the Dinkleberg's Discord Voice Channel in an effort to undermine me and the credibility of my argument as well as my status so that you can justify your argument a bit more. Regardless of whether you did this intentionally or not, I ask that you understand that my only quarrel with this moderator is his/her playstyle in TTT, nothing else. This should not be a deciding factor at all in this appeal. It's worrying that you're bringing this up since now I'm afraid that personal biases are going to influence this appeal's fate.

I personaly was not there when this was occurring. This is just what they told me and I relayed here. I did not cut anything he/she told me, I typed about exactly as he/she said.

---

I agree this should not decide what happens with this unban request I just felt it was relevant to bring up.

[EyeSpyU]

okkay
First of all, you say you had called a test or KOS in VC. The server was EXTREMELY loud. I did not hear you, nor did anyone I was in discord with. For a test or KOS to be valid, they need to be able to hear or see that you are doing it. When the server is this loud it is best to use text chat. Because I did not hear you, I saw that 2 of the 4 people you killed reported you and I looked in logs (that I have if needed) and saw that at least 3 people did nothing before being killed. Additionally, non of the times in which you killed innocents was another detective shooting at you. When a mass RDM happen, we normally don't wait until people report the mass RDMer and ban on site then collect evidence from logs.
I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request.
Overall I give you a +0 since I don't care either way but if information comes up I may sway either way.

"I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request." 

It seems that you tied back to what this moderator was saying about me in the Dinkleberg's Discord Voice Channel in an effort to undermine me and the credibility of my argument as well as my status so that you can justify your argument a bit more. Regardless of whether you did this intentionally or not, I ask that you understand that my only quarrel with this moderator is his/her playstyle in TTT, nothing else. This should not be a deciding factor at all in this appeal. It's worrying that you're bringing this up since now I'm afraid that personal biases are going to influence this appeal's fate.

I personaly was not there when this was occurring. This is just what they told me and I relayed here. I did not cut anything he/she told me, I typed about exactly as he/she said.

Ok, I can respect that.

[The Dutch Problem]

The simple thing I'd like to give to the staff's perspective is that shit gets loud, and from the quote given by EyeSpyU I get the impression that the guy who said "Leave me alone" may not have heard it and was wanting some alone time with your voice being overlapped by the micspam (I was not present so I don't know how bad it was, assuming it was pretty bad). This makes for one questionable kill.

the DNA thing, could have been a case of self-defense that was said but lost in chat spam or so, so questionable at best. Ignorance at worst.

The shots fired by the T that was killed may have come from one of those "Non-vanilla" weapons wich to my understanding do not show up in shot logs because... fuck you? But that could be instigated by the other Detect whom should receive the punishment from that as most people would support the detect in a fight.

Honestly, this gives off 3 questionable (At best) kills, total RDM at worst with the fourth being... not his fault really. I'd say go for an unban really. Also just saying to y'all sitting in discord with one-another while also playing Gmod makes listening to anything said in VC fucking impossible (From my experiences) so I can understand none of you heard him call the test or KOS's but if its because y'all sit in discord then its not HIS problem. If you sit in discord ask other folks who could've heard him call them (Currently assuming you have not done this).

[dero]

The simple thing I'd like to give to the staff's perspective is that shit gets loud, and from the quote given by EyeSpyU I get the impression that the guy who said "Leave me alone" may not have heard it and was wanting some alone time with your voice being overlapped by the micspam (I was not present so I don't know how bad it was, assuming it was pretty bad). This makes for one questionable kill.

the DNA thing, could have been a case of self-defense that was said but lost in chat spam or so, so questionable at best. Ignorance at worst.

The shots fired by the T that was killed may have come from one of those "Non-vanilla" weapons wich to my understanding do not show up in shot logs because... fuck you? But that could be instigated by the other Detect whom should receive the punishment from that as most people would support the detect in a fight.

Honestly, this gives off 3 questionable (At best) kills, total RDM at worst with the fourth being... not his fault really. I'd say go for an unban really. Also just saying to y'all sitting in discord with one-another while also playing Gmod makes listening to anything said in VC fucking impossible (From my experiences) so I can understand none of you heard him call the test or KOS's but if its because y'all sit in discord then its not HIS problem. If you sit in discord ask other folks who could've heard him call them (Currently assuming you have not done this).

The discord was pretty quiet at the time. There were not many people in there to be fair but none of us heard it.

[nopleez]

The simple thing I'd like to give to the staff's perspective is that shit gets loud, and from the quote given by EyeSpyU I get the impression that the guy who said "Leave me alone" may not have heard it and was wanting some alone time with your voice being overlapped by the micspam (I was not present so I don't know how bad it was, assuming it was pretty bad). This makes for one questionable kill.

the DNA thing, could have been a case of self-defense that was said but lost in chat spam or so, so questionable at best. Ignorance at worst.

The shots fired by the T that was killed may have come from one of those "Non-vanilla" weapons wich to my understanding do not show up in shot logs because... fuck you? But that could be instigated by the other Detect whom should receive the punishment from that as most people would support the detect in a fight.

Honestly, this gives off 3 questionable (At best) kills, total RDM at worst with the fourth being... not his fault really. I'd say go for an unban really. Also just saying to y'all sitting in discord with one-another while also playing Gmod makes listening to anything said in VC fucking impossible (From my experiences) so I can understand none of you heard him call the test or KOS's but if its because y'all sit in discord then its not HIS problem. If you sit in discord ask other folks who could've heard him call them (Currently assuming you have not done this).

The discord was pretty quiet at the time. There were not many people in there to be fair but none of us heard it.

Regardless of whether or not you heard it, if the players involved did hear it then it wasn't RDM. Since you cannot prove the players involved did not hear it (Probably because you didn't wait for report responses) he should not stay banned.

The RDMs were not malicious and had reasoning behind them, it seems the only reason someone wants him kept banned is because of this:

I have heard from another staff member (They may speak up if they haven't already by the time I post this) you targeted them and harassed them in admin chat. They also said that you were complaining about innos camping (which is fine for innos to do). The staff member in question was very annoyed about this to say the least. This may be unrelated to this "Mass RDM" incident but is relevant to an unban request.

Which isn't even related to the ban.