[bunniey]

It's not a copout when you're constantly just being purposefully obstinate to the detriment of yourself and everyone else's playtime/enjoyment. The idea of "if there's another very reasonable possibility, then don't kill someone or run the risk of them reporting you" is so there is less RDM. Because being RDM'd is annoying, as you very make clear you agree with since every time you are RDM'd you're in someone's DMs complaining, and every time you're slain for RDM you're also in someone's DMs complaining. Plus just the sheer number of reports you put out.

If we only ever looked at situations like this as the RDMer sees it, it would never be RDM because they were "socially deducing" (it's never been about that on this server, there has always been a bunch of rules to define it so people can't just kill willy nilly and then say "but hey, i got it right so it can't be rdm!!!", you can find a different server to yap on though!).

[Joker]

It's not a copout when you're constantly just being purposefully obstinate to the detriment of yourself and everyone else's playtime/enjoyment. The idea of "if there's another very reasonable possibility, then don't kill someone or run the risk of them reporting you" is so there is less RDM. Because being RDM'd is annoying, as you very make clear you agree with since every time you are RDM'd you're in someone's DMs complaining, and every time you're slain for RDM you're also in someone's DMs complaining. Plus just the sheer number of reports you put out.

If we only ever looked at situations like this as the RDMer sees it, it would never be RDM because they were "socially deducing" (it's never been about that on this server, there has always been a bunch of rules to define it so people can't just kill willy nilly and then say "but hey, i got it right so it can't be rdm!!!", you can find a different server to yap on though!).

You saying it's not a copout doesn't make it not a copout lol. There are plenty of times where people wern't slain that were reported for similar actions. You're deducing it down and trying to downplay it because of "The sheer number of reports you put out". The report button pops up you can use it and I don't care that I get I slain feel free to see all the reports I agree yeah that's a slay. So "every time" is a rather exaggeration that you seem emotionaly invested in. 

If you only ever looked at situations like this with proof of it happening in front of you, YOU might not be able to piece things together and that's okay but some pay attention to detail. 
I didn't say "But hey, I got it right so it can't be rmd!!" I said I had enough proof to kill him and was right in doing so you are giving hypotherical excuses for something that's plain as day when you know what you're looking at. Half of you can't even agree if you can kill someone for throwing a spring mine out in front of people because there's no animation but depending on what staff is on it's KOSable.

You're watching it be commited in front of you but just because YOU don't know what happened it means I dont? That's some solid person perspective there for someone calling someone else obstinate Bunnhe

[Jack (2)]

I just held it out and walked into him with it, simply put. Not sure how this much is being interpreted by that short time frame as shown in the video clip.

[brother roach]

I don't think a constructive agreement is going to be found here, people are just repeating their points over and over again.
The POV of players and staff are not always going to be aligned, and that just is what it is.
The staff have the final say on the fly, no amount of arguing is going change that.

What CAN be constructively done at this point is to begin a conservation (elsewhere) to discuss how we can remove the possibility of situations like this frustrating people in the future. A change to the rules? A change to response by players and staff? A change to how springtraps work entirely?
If it's a situation the OP is this concerned about those are avenues to go down.
This as is, is going nowhere.

[Joker]

I don't think a constructive agreement is going to be found here, people are just repeating their points over and over again.
The POV of players and staff are not always going to be aligned, and that just is what it is.
The staff have the final say on the fly, no amount of arguing is going change that.

What CAN be constructively done at this point is to begin a conservation (elsewhere) to discuss how we can remove the possibility of situations like this frustrating people in the future. A change to the rules? A change to response by players and staff? A change to how springtraps work entirely?
If it's a situation the OP is this concerned about those are avenues to go down.
This as is, is going nowhere.

Amazing perspective, I wish it was viewed more as this but unfortunatly ego and biases play a role regardless of what's said it's human nature.

@Jack (2) When someone doesn't understand one way, explain it another. I can only break it down so simple when video evidence isn't enough, I apologize for attempting to explain in word format what's happening in the video that you clearly did and were upset that its so obvious when you watch it happen otherwise you wouldn't have been a T and would have been an Inno if we're going off baseless hypotheticals that are only relevant for others. No I'm not going to wait to watch you do it multiple times when im confident in the call of watching you do something when I know what I saw just as with anything else just because something happens fast doesn't mean people don't see it, that's a really lame excuse. 

Unfortunatly Roach I feel as nothing will be done as it's a popular move to chaulk it up to "Let people kill the inno's because it ruins THEIR fun if you understand the game too much" otherwise as "Shit happens". "have fun" apparently is definitive and only 1 perspective of what one qualifies as "fun".

"You need to watch it spring someone" was a reason I was given, yet I watched jack spring it on someone and just happened to do everything that lines up with him hitting them with a spring mine on a magneto stick?

[Ryan]

I don't think a constructive agreement is going to be found here, people are just repeating their points over and over again.
The POV of players and staff are not always going to be aligned, and that just is what it is.
The staff have the final say on the fly, no amount of arguing is going change that.

What CAN be constructively done at this point is to begin a conservation (elsewhere) to discuss how we can remove the possibility of situations like this frustrating people in the future. A change to the rules? A change to response by players and staff? A change to how springtraps work entirely?
If it's a situation the OP is this concerned about those are avenues to go down.
This as is, is going nowhere.

Amazing perspective, I wish it was viewed more as this but unfortunatly ego and biases play a role regardless of what's said it's human nature.

@Jack (2) When someone doesn't understand one way, explain it another. I can only break it down so simple when video evidence isn't enough, I apologize for attempting to explain in word format what's happening in the video that you clearly did and were upset that its so obvious when you watch it happen otherwise you wouldn't have been a T and would have been an Inno if we're going off baseless hypotheticals that are only relevant for others. No I'm not going to wait to watch you do it multiple times when im confident in the call of watching you do something when I know what I saw just as with anything else just because something happens fast doesn't mean people don't see it, that's a really lame excuse. 

Unfortunatly Roach I feel as nothing will be done as it's a popular move to chaulk it up to "Let people kill the inno's because it ruins THEIR fun if you understand the game too much" otherwise as "Shit happens". "have fun" apparently is definitive and only 1 perspective of what one qualifies as "fun".

"You need to watch it spring someone" was a reason I was given, yet I watched jack spring it on someone and just happened to do everything that lines up with him hitting them with a spring mine on a magneto stick?

In the voice of constructive criticism, what do you think is needed to be changed, specifically? As the rules currently stand, your kill was a kill on sus. You saw someone look a certain direction and then someone went flying upwards. What would you change to make this better that wouldn’t also hinder other areas of gameplay?

Edit: I’m going to open this question up to everyone. What can be changed from this situation? Should anything be changed from this situation?

[茶 Tea]

rdm rules should be relaxed in the spirit of this game's roots as it stands the game is boring as fuck

[Joker]

I don't think a constructive agreement is going to be found here, people are just repeating their points over and over again.
The POV of players and staff are not always going to be aligned, and that just is what it is.
The staff have the final say on the fly, no amount of arguing is going change that.

What CAN be constructively done at this point is to begin a conservation (elsewhere) to discuss how we can remove the possibility of situations like this frustrating people in the future. A change to the rules? A change to response by players and staff? A change to how springtraps work entirely?
If it's a situation the OP is this concerned about those are avenues to go down.
This as is, is going nowhere.

Amazing perspective, I wish it was viewed more as this but unfortunatly ego and biases play a role regardless of what's said it's human nature.

@Jack (2) When someone doesn't understand one way, explain it another. I can only break it down so simple when video evidence isn't enough, I apologize for attempting to explain in word format what's happening in the video that you clearly did and were upset that its so obvious when you watch it happen otherwise you wouldn't have been a T and would have been an Inno if we're going off baseless hypotheticals that are only relevant for others. No I'm not going to wait to watch you do it multiple times when im confident in the call of watching you do something when I know what I saw just as with anything else just because something happens fast doesn't mean people don't see it, that's a really lame excuse. 

Unfortunatly Roach I feel as nothing will be done as it's a popular move to chaulk it up to "Let people kill the inno's because it ruins THEIR fun if you understand the game too much" otherwise as "Shit happens". "have fun" apparently is definitive and only 1 perspective of what one qualifies as "fun".

"You need to watch it spring someone" was a reason I was given, yet I watched jack spring it on someone and just happened to do everything that lines up with him hitting them with a spring mine on a magneto stick?

In the voice of constructive criticism, what do you think is needed to be changed, specifically? As the rules currently stand, your kill was a kill on sus. You saw someone look a certain direction and then someone went flying upwards. What would you change to make this better that wouldn’t also hinder other areas of gameplay?

Edit: I’m going to open this question up to everyone. What can be changed from this situation? Shoudl anything be changed from this situation?

It would nice if we could take into account circumstantial evidence, which is what happened here.

You can piece together that there was a spring mine attached to the magneto stick based off of him as he said himself running up to him and sending him flying which should be no different than "placing" a spring mine at someone feet when you can clearly tell that that's what happened or he would have been an inno according to these random hypotheticals of "you don't know that" when clearly I do or it wouldn't have happened. This results in them getting killed so I see little to no difference in them adding a magneto stick to the mix in a vain attempt to get around the kos. If something happens enough to where people know what happend other's shouldn't have to limit themselves because they don't know what happened. Ultimately this comes down to a niche that will keep happening and getting defended based on "how the rules are written out" without adding cicumstantial evidence of witnessing it happen.
*even though I witnessed it*

[Ryan]

I don't think a constructive agreement is going to be found here, people are just repeating their points over and over again.
The POV of players and staff are not always going to be aligned, and that just is what it is.
The staff have the final say on the fly, no amount of arguing is going change that.

What CAN be constructively done at this point is to begin a conservation (elsewhere) to discuss how we can remove the possibility of situations like this frustrating people in the future. A change to the rules? A change to response by players and staff? A change to how springtraps work entirely?
If it's a situation the OP is this concerned about those are avenues to go down.
This as is, is going nowhere.

Amazing perspective, I wish it was viewed more as this but unfortunatly ego and biases play a role regardless of what's said it's human nature.

@Jack (2) When someone doesn't understand one way, explain it another. I can only break it down so simple when video evidence isn't enough, I apologize for attempting to explain in word format what's happening in the video that you clearly did and were upset that its so obvious when you watch it happen otherwise you wouldn't have been a T and would have been an Inno if we're going off baseless hypotheticals that are only relevant for others. No I'm not going to wait to watch you do it multiple times when im confident in the call of watching you do something when I know what I saw just as with anything else just because something happens fast doesn't mean people don't see it, that's a really lame excuse. 

Unfortunatly Roach I feel as nothing will be done as it's a popular move to chaulk it up to "Let people kill the inno's because it ruins THEIR fun if you understand the game too much" otherwise as "Shit happens". "have fun" apparently is definitive and only 1 perspective of what one qualifies as "fun".

"You need to watch it spring someone" was a reason I was given, yet I watched jack spring it on someone and just happened to do everything that lines up with him hitting them with a spring mine on a magneto stick?

In the voice of constructive criticism, what do you think is needed to be changed, specifically? As the rules currently stand, your kill was a kill on sus. You saw someone look a certain direction and then someone went flying upwards. What would you change to make this better that wouldn’t also hinder other areas of gameplay?

Edit: I’m going to open this question up to everyone. What can be changed from this situation? Shoudl anything be changed from this situation?

It would nice if we could take into account circumstantial evidence, which is what happened here.

You can piece together that there was a spring mine attached to the magneto stick based off of him as he said himself running up to him and sending him flying which should be no different than "placing" a spring mine at someone feet when you can clearly tell that that's what happened or he would have been an inno according to these random hypotheticals of "you don't know that" when clearly I do or it wouldn't have happened. This results in them getting killed so I see little to no difference in them adding a magneto stick to the mix in a vain attempt to get around the kos. If something happens enough to where people know what happend other's shouldn't have to limit themselves because they don't know what happened. Ultimately this comes down to a niche that will keep happening and getting defended based on "how the rules are written out" without adding cicumstantial evidence of witnessing it happen.
*even though I witnessed it*

So I have 2 questions to this:

How would you write this rule?

What if the situation was reversed? If the spring mine was placed by someone else and you had killed an inno, what then?

[Joker]

I don't think a constructive agreement is going to be found here, people are just repeating their points over and over again.
The POV of players and staff are not always going to be aligned, and that just is what it is.
The staff have the final say on the fly, no amount of arguing is going change that.

What CAN be constructively done at this point is to begin a conservation (elsewhere) to discuss how we can remove the possibility of situations like this frustrating people in the future. A change to the rules? A change to response by players and staff? A change to how springtraps work entirely?
If it's a situation the OP is this concerned about those are avenues to go down.
This as is, is going nowhere.

Amazing perspective, I wish it was viewed more as this but unfortunatly ego and biases play a role regardless of what's said it's human nature.

@Jack (2) When someone doesn't understand one way, explain it another. I can only break it down so simple when video evidence isn't enough, I apologize for attempting to explain in word format what's happening in the video that you clearly did and were upset that its so obvious when you watch it happen otherwise you wouldn't have been a T and would have been an Inno if we're going off baseless hypotheticals that are only relevant for others. No I'm not going to wait to watch you do it multiple times when im confident in the call of watching you do something when I know what I saw just as with anything else just because something happens fast doesn't mean people don't see it, that's a really lame excuse. 

Unfortunatly Roach I feel as nothing will be done as it's a popular move to chaulk it up to "Let people kill the inno's because it ruins THEIR fun if you understand the game too much" otherwise as "Shit happens". "have fun" apparently is definitive and only 1 perspective of what one qualifies as "fun".

"You need to watch it spring someone" was a reason I was given, yet I watched jack spring it on someone and just happened to do everything that lines up with him hitting them with a spring mine on a magneto stick?

In the voice of constructive criticism, what do you think is needed to be changed, specifically? As the rules currently stand, your kill was a kill on sus. You saw someone look a certain direction and then someone went flying upwards. What would you change to make this better that wouldn’t also hinder other areas of gameplay?

Edit: I’m going to open this question up to everyone. What can be changed from this situation? Shoudl anything be changed from this situation?

It would nice if we could take into account circumstantial evidence, which is what happened here.

You can piece together that there was a spring mine attached to the magneto stick based off of him as he said himself running up to him and sending him flying which should be no different than "placing" a spring mine at someone feet when you can clearly tell that that's what happened or he would have been an inno according to these random hypotheticals of "you don't know that" when clearly I do or it wouldn't have happened. This results in them getting killed so I see little to no difference in them adding a magneto stick to the mix in a vain attempt to get around the kos. If something happens enough to where people know what happend other's shouldn't have to limit themselves because they don't know what happened. Ultimately this comes down to a niche that will keep happening and getting defended based on "how the rules are written out" without adding cicumstantial evidence of witnessing it happen.
*even though I witnessed it*

So I have 2 questions to this:

How would you write this rule?

What if the situation was reversed? If the spring mine was placed by someone else and you had killed an inno, what then?

1. If you can articulate why you made a decision with sound reason and evidence behind why you did what you did and the person did what you were able to describe this should be no different from watching someone commit another T act. I was able to describe exactly what Jack had done to a Tee while seeing it with my eyes and this was not enough.

For another example the person Jack hit with the spring mine was mid jump so if the mine was on the ground he wouldnt have essentially double jumped at the same time Jack ran into him with the magneto stick. just as another reason behind why I killed him the person he hit would have hit the ground and not double jumped when Jack hit him with his magneto stick.

2. If the roles were reversed I would have killed an Inno and been slain and wrong in my reasoning. I wouldn't have killed them because I wouldn't have seen what I saw, unless of course you mean an inno had a spring mine on a magneto stick and tripped it on someone in which case I would do the same thing and kill them for doing this.