03-24-2024, 11:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2024, 12:18 AM by Brandeaux. Edited 3 times in total.)
Oh boy, I know I'm gonna ruffle a few feathers with this one, but I would be remiss if I didn't say anything.
First off I would like to preface this entire post by saying, I by no means wish to cause coco duress about this situation. I think the conduct that she was forced to endure was horrendous and the man responsible deserved to be removed from the community unilaterally. None of what I intend to say here looks to place blame on her nor does it look to take away from the seriousness of the conduct in question.
My one and singular issue is with the combined behavior of both users AND staff with regards to how Hoy was treated after the fact. Also I would like it made very clear that the post itself and the arguing that ensued/may ensue is not to the fault of coco.
For context:
It was revealed that, one night, address information between coco and the man in question were shared as a means to get door dash for each other.
Hoy responded to this information with "coco.. I really wish you would be more careful with these things"
(To note: other community members also expressed concern due to issues of safety, hoy will just became the main target for contention here.)
coco would then comment that she thought she was naive after this was expressed, where people were quick to reassure her that this does not mean she did anything wrong. This included Murl, Reina, No Name. Rightfully so.
coco then continues to elaborate on this saying things will be changing for the future and comments on her mental state and that she finds it difficult to say no to people.
Reina then puts forth the following:
"these men are making the decision to harass you. you're not responsible for their actions, and it's not fair to you that you have to feel unsafe because of lonely psychos who can't take no for an answer"
"and you being conditioned to be agreeable by the scary behavior of men online is not you being naive or dumb"
Why am I outlining this? Because no one disagrees with these points, not once does anyone try to argue or belittle coco based on believing otherwise but it will be insisted later on that people do and then said false disagreement is used to repaint hoys character/intentions.
Here begins the meat of the drama. https://discord.com/channels/26353637419...4095541308
(Certain messages have been omitted for relevancies sake, everything here will be an accurate depiction of the conversational flow and I have split the conversation by color to indicate where I think the problem lies).
>Damien responds to hoys comment with a gif
>Hoy says they are lost
>Damien: Clearly
>Brandeaux: They are just cautioning against giving out personal info to the dinkle residents
>Hoy: yeah? I'm not sure what is so controversial about telling people to be careful not to share their home address
>Damien: going "oh, you should be less trustworthy with people" is just not realizing the problem imo
>Reina: she's a grown woman, don't give her stranger danger lessons like she's a 9 year old
>Damien: it isn't coco's fault for trusting someone who she thought was a good friend
>Brandeux: I mean I dont think anyone here disagrees that qailub was the problem
>No Name: i dont see what hoy did wrong though? like maybe i missed something
>Reina: you guys keep infantilizing her and assuming she treats people like this because she's naive and not because some men are fucking scary when they feel like they've been rejected by a woman on the internet
>No Name: I'm not infantizing her, I'm just saying in general people should be careful who they give their address to online. again she did nothing wrong at all and im on her side 100%, like I recognize how terrifying some dudes online can be esp when they are lonely af and are rejected. i never said she does this cause she is naive.
>Reina: just stop assuming she needs to learn to be less nice when in reality she's doing her best to un-learn that the safest option is to be nice to threatening people.
>No Name: no one said she had to learn to be less nice though? at least i didnt, i cant speak for others
>Reina: my dude i'm talking to hoy
Important to note that hoy has not said anything since the first message in this pseudo log and wont till much further in the convo.
>Brandeaux: Yeah no one’s saying she has to be less nice. I don’t think it’s a mutually exclusive position to acknowledge that there are fucked people who tried taking advantage of a good person and wanting said good person to advocate for themselves by engaging in some extra self preservation with their private information. I’m pretty sure Hoy is coming at this with good intentions. Like everyone else here, they care for cocos well being and doesn’t wish to see this happen to her.
>No Name: you went off on hoy for like no reason
>Reina: did you seriously just call telling someone to stop giving her a stranger danger lesson """"going off on them""""
>Grump (reply to hoy's initial statement): What a genuinely stupid thing to say
>Reina: some of you treat women in this community like children and it truly pisses me off
>Brandeaux: It has nothing to do with her being a woman, I’m 100% certain hoy would say this to anyone this happens to. Why does this have to be a hostile exchange? Everyone here is coming at this with the same intentions.
>Panda: I think hoys statement comes off more as "hey, stupid quit making dumb decisions" instead of acknowledging that someone decided to be weird. And thats why its upsetting (just trying to word things clearer if i can for those who may not be understanding still).
>No Name: I agree with this, but again I just dont think hoy was meaning to imply anything
>Reina: then he shouldn't have said something that implies it
>Hoy: I was genuinely concerned for coco as I do care about the safety of not just her, but everyone else. Sorry if it came across in such a way.
This comment by hoy becomes completely unaddressed and it is continued to be argued by reina and moocow that people are infantilizing coco. With also some odd elucidation towards the disrespect of women through the conversation and as a consistent pattern in the server. (I am not here to argue about the latter).
>Moocow: reina is trying to explain how demeaning it is to be infantilized and yall are only concerned about her tone
>Brandeaux: Yeah it's just not infantilizing.
>Brandeaux: No one's treating coco like a child.
>Moocow: “hey this thing comes across like this certain way and it’s insulting” “ok but it’s not”
>Reina: ty for explaining to the women how women interpret your words instead of just taking it in stride
>Brandeaux: You’re projecting a meaning onto his words from an intent that wasn’t there. He already had to restate the intent cause people aren’t being charitable enough to see that hoy just cares about coco
>Brandeaux: Idk why you keep on beating the conversational horse about y’all being women, no one gives a shit. That’s not a motivating factor. Y’all are being ape brained for no reason.
I would like to extend an apology for this comment, I found this conversation really frustrating as I did not see the point in needing to slander hoy for an interpretation of words that was entirely divorced of any meaning of his besides the insistence that he was doing it.
And to include coco's ruling of the conversation:
coco: imm gonna cry ok I’m not mad at anyone or anything , i do think reinas sentiment is right, but I’m also not mad at hoy or offended by anything
To Summarize:
I take great issue with the way staff specifically handled this conversation, I wholly sympathize with the desire to support coco and ensure that no comments made would hurt or harm her in any way. However, there was no need to assume that anything that hoy said throughout this conversation indicated that they were trying to infantilize, belittle, condescend, or any other synonym from the brief amount of talking they did here. I should not have had to step in on his behalf nor anyone else against staff for the way they chose to treat them/their words. If they had truly had such a problem with the way this was declared it could of easily been handled privately, with hoy, instead of making accusations against them and then forcing a dialogue that was uncomfortable for all parties involved, especially coco. This incident created an opening for dogpiling against a person who had no ill intent and who didn't even have a chance to defend themselves before people jumped to insults/accusations. Which by the time they did, the conversation had already progressed enough to where their comments then began to be ignored. This resulted in them leaving as a result and feeling alienated from a community they had been apart of for a considerably great deal longer than I have, by people they considered to be on good terms with.
What I wish to happen as a result:
I would like to see an apology from specific staff to hoy for unprofessional behavior, a happy conclusion to this nonsense drama, and insurance that when they rejoin the community they will feel welcomed.
They did not deserve this, nothing about their character/past behavior would indicate they would do what was argued. Nothing from the conversation itself. Nothing from their reaction after the fact.
Thank you,
Sorry for the yap.
First off I would like to preface this entire post by saying, I by no means wish to cause coco duress about this situation. I think the conduct that she was forced to endure was horrendous and the man responsible deserved to be removed from the community unilaterally. None of what I intend to say here looks to place blame on her nor does it look to take away from the seriousness of the conduct in question.
My one and singular issue is with the combined behavior of both users AND staff with regards to how Hoy was treated after the fact. Also I would like it made very clear that the post itself and the arguing that ensued/may ensue is not to the fault of coco.
For context:
It was revealed that, one night, address information between coco and the man in question were shared as a means to get door dash for each other.
Hoy responded to this information with "coco.. I really wish you would be more careful with these things"
(To note: other community members also expressed concern due to issues of safety, hoy will just became the main target for contention here.)
coco would then comment that she thought she was naive after this was expressed, where people were quick to reassure her that this does not mean she did anything wrong. This included Murl, Reina, No Name. Rightfully so.
coco then continues to elaborate on this saying things will be changing for the future and comments on her mental state and that she finds it difficult to say no to people.
Reina then puts forth the following:
"these men are making the decision to harass you. you're not responsible for their actions, and it's not fair to you that you have to feel unsafe because of lonely psychos who can't take no for an answer"
"and you being conditioned to be agreeable by the scary behavior of men online is not you being naive or dumb"
Why am I outlining this? Because no one disagrees with these points, not once does anyone try to argue or belittle coco based on believing otherwise but it will be insisted later on that people do and then said false disagreement is used to repaint hoys character/intentions.
Here begins the meat of the drama. https://discord.com/channels/26353637419...4095541308
(Certain messages have been omitted for relevancies sake, everything here will be an accurate depiction of the conversational flow and I have split the conversation by color to indicate where I think the problem lies).
>Damien responds to hoys comment with a gif
>Hoy says they are lost
>Damien: Clearly
>Brandeaux: They are just cautioning against giving out personal info to the dinkle residents
>Hoy: yeah? I'm not sure what is so controversial about telling people to be careful not to share their home address
>Damien: going "oh, you should be less trustworthy with people" is just not realizing the problem imo
>Reina: she's a grown woman, don't give her stranger danger lessons like she's a 9 year old
>Damien: it isn't coco's fault for trusting someone who she thought was a good friend
>Brandeux: I mean I dont think anyone here disagrees that qailub was the problem
>No Name: i dont see what hoy did wrong though? like maybe i missed something
>Reina: you guys keep infantilizing her and assuming she treats people like this because she's naive and not because some men are fucking scary when they feel like they've been rejected by a woman on the internet
>No Name: I'm not infantizing her, I'm just saying in general people should be careful who they give their address to online. again she did nothing wrong at all and im on her side 100%, like I recognize how terrifying some dudes online can be esp when they are lonely af and are rejected. i never said she does this cause she is naive.
>Reina: just stop assuming she needs to learn to be less nice when in reality she's doing her best to un-learn that the safest option is to be nice to threatening people.
>No Name: no one said she had to learn to be less nice though? at least i didnt, i cant speak for others
>Reina: my dude i'm talking to hoy
Important to note that hoy has not said anything since the first message in this pseudo log and wont till much further in the convo.
>Brandeaux: Yeah no one’s saying she has to be less nice. I don’t think it’s a mutually exclusive position to acknowledge that there are fucked people who tried taking advantage of a good person and wanting said good person to advocate for themselves by engaging in some extra self preservation with their private information. I’m pretty sure Hoy is coming at this with good intentions. Like everyone else here, they care for cocos well being and doesn’t wish to see this happen to her.
>No Name: you went off on hoy for like no reason
>Reina: did you seriously just call telling someone to stop giving her a stranger danger lesson """"going off on them""""
>Grump (reply to hoy's initial statement): What a genuinely stupid thing to say
>Reina: some of you treat women in this community like children and it truly pisses me off
>Brandeaux: It has nothing to do with her being a woman, I’m 100% certain hoy would say this to anyone this happens to. Why does this have to be a hostile exchange? Everyone here is coming at this with the same intentions.
>Panda: I think hoys statement comes off more as "hey, stupid quit making dumb decisions" instead of acknowledging that someone decided to be weird. And thats why its upsetting (just trying to word things clearer if i can for those who may not be understanding still).
>No Name: I agree with this, but again I just dont think hoy was meaning to imply anything
>Reina: then he shouldn't have said something that implies it
>Hoy: I was genuinely concerned for coco as I do care about the safety of not just her, but everyone else. Sorry if it came across in such a way.
This comment by hoy becomes completely unaddressed and it is continued to be argued by reina and moocow that people are infantilizing coco. With also some odd elucidation towards the disrespect of women through the conversation and as a consistent pattern in the server. (I am not here to argue about the latter).
>Moocow: reina is trying to explain how demeaning it is to be infantilized and yall are only concerned about her tone
>Brandeaux: Yeah it's just not infantilizing.
>Brandeaux: No one's treating coco like a child.
>Moocow: “hey this thing comes across like this certain way and it’s insulting” “ok but it’s not”
>Reina: ty for explaining to the women how women interpret your words instead of just taking it in stride
>Brandeaux: You’re projecting a meaning onto his words from an intent that wasn’t there. He already had to restate the intent cause people aren’t being charitable enough to see that hoy just cares about coco
>Brandeaux: Idk why you keep on beating the conversational horse about y’all being women, no one gives a shit. That’s not a motivating factor. Y’all are being ape brained for no reason.
I would like to extend an apology for this comment, I found this conversation really frustrating as I did not see the point in needing to slander hoy for an interpretation of words that was entirely divorced of any meaning of his besides the insistence that he was doing it.
And to include coco's ruling of the conversation:
coco: imm gonna cry ok I’m not mad at anyone or anything , i do think reinas sentiment is right, but I’m also not mad at hoy or offended by anything
To Summarize:
I take great issue with the way staff specifically handled this conversation, I wholly sympathize with the desire to support coco and ensure that no comments made would hurt or harm her in any way. However, there was no need to assume that anything that hoy said throughout this conversation indicated that they were trying to infantilize, belittle, condescend, or any other synonym from the brief amount of talking they did here. I should not have had to step in on his behalf nor anyone else against staff for the way they chose to treat them/their words. If they had truly had such a problem with the way this was declared it could of easily been handled privately, with hoy, instead of making accusations against them and then forcing a dialogue that was uncomfortable for all parties involved, especially coco. This incident created an opening for dogpiling against a person who had no ill intent and who didn't even have a chance to defend themselves before people jumped to insults/accusations. Which by the time they did, the conversation had already progressed enough to where their comments then began to be ignored. This resulted in them leaving as a result and feeling alienated from a community they had been apart of for a considerably great deal longer than I have, by people they considered to be on good terms with.
What I wish to happen as a result:
I would like to see an apology from specific staff to hoy for unprofessional behavior, a happy conclusion to this nonsense drama, and insurance that when they rejoin the community they will feel welcomed.
They did not deserve this, nothing about their character/past behavior would indicate they would do what was argued. Nothing from the conversation itself. Nothing from their reaction after the fact.
Thank you,
Sorry for the yap.
