[HiddenBlade]

Hi everyone. I've been playing on this server for a few days and have mostly enjoyed my time here but I wanted to talk about something that happened about 20 minutes ago. This isn't in the staff abuse subforum because it wasn't abuse and it was just a slay, but I want to talk about why I was slayed and why it's stupid.

(Sorry, I don't know how to embed images)

If you're familiar with the newer WhiteHouse map in the rotation you'll know about this area that leads to the upstairs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...62073EB96/

I was standing a little ways away from that area when I heard several shotgun blasts. As I came into the hallway I saw a body on the stairs. I quickly checked in the security room to make sure no one was hiding, before I id'd the body which had been killed 9 seconds ago with a shotgun. This meant that the murderer could not have run past me, had a shotgun as their primary, and was upstairs. When I ran upstairs I saw a player named Cobalt standing there with a shotgun over a body that may have or may not have been id'ed, I don't remember. So at this point I was sure that Cobalt was either the killer of the guy on the stairs or had witnessed the firefight and let the murderer run past him without calling him out or shooting at him. So I killed Cobalt, who was a traitor, and was immediately killed by someone named Foxtrot, who was also a traitor and the actual killer of the guy on the stairs.

I was reported by Cobalt and slayed by Avi for RDM. I don't think I RDM'ed. I think I shot him in the original spirit of TTT, which, back when it began, was a game about thinking and deduction under pressure. I don't think it's in the spirit of TTT to slay me for doing that and I look forward to a discussion about this. I wonder how the staff feels about the easy traitor trick on minecraft_b5, which I can go into more detail about if anyone wants it.

It is metagaming by the servers rules, and most others, but I understand your point. Unfortunately for a lot of people, you're not allowed to use basic logic in this game. It's not entirely something that makes sense to me, but it is there for a reason. The only time metagaming is allowed here is when there are only two people on the server, because there is no other option at that specific point in time. Besides that, you need hard evidence.

How is it "metagaming" to use options provided to me by the game to deduce a traitor?

---

I can understand the frustrations involved with not being able to kill someone off of using logic/deduction skills (darn us Sherlocke Holmes types). Even I sometimes use deduction or logic to mark a T and susp or KOS them (the KOS being in OT unless I jump the gun) based on incidents they were around. However, I can see why the server has those rules such as "No KOS off of skins/weapons/location" because they are easy to change and players tend to stretch the limit of logic/deduction before it turns into blatant RDM. A good example of this is if there are 25 people alive, 11 are using the silenced sniper (one of them's a T), the T kills someone, and someone says susp/KOS anyone with the silenced sniper because this man was killed with one, then that person just put susp/kos on 11 people not to mention the T could easily discard the weapon and get a different one.

It seems like the only way people are rebutting this is by pulling hypothetical situations out of their ass that don't even apply. It's not like he got killed from a mile away 3 minutes ago, and someone is running round with the same gun. He was killed less than 10 seconds before and no one had run past me. Ergo, the guy standing in the hallway either killed him or let it happen and didn't call him out or shoot, which is traitorous.

The example was to show why we have the "No KOS on skin/weapon/location rule but since you asked, let's deconstruct the situation:

If you're familiar with the newer WhiteHouse map in the rotation you'll know about this area that leads to the upstairs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...62073EB96/

I was standing a little ways away from that area when I heard several shotgun blasts.

You were probably in the end the small hallway between the conference room and the office that leads to the security office. That's as close as you can be to that location and call it standing a little ways away without seeing someone walk away from that murder. You only heard the shots, you did not see the fight happen nor see anyone walking away from the body.

As I came into the hallway I saw a body on the stairs. I quickly checked in the security room to make sure no one was hiding, before I id'd the body which had been killed 7 seconds ago with a shotgun. This meant that the murderer could not have run past me, had a shotgun as their primary, and was upstairs.

3 ways a T could easily avoid you in that location:
1. Cloak and walk past you
2. Teleport
3. There's a T room literally next to those stairs

Reason why I put teleport in there is because even though you can hear it when it is used, if you couldn't hear the firefight going on upstairs between Foxtrot and Ghost as you were on the stairs leading up to the 2nd floor, then it is indeed possible the killer could have teleported without you knowing.

Also has a certain weapon that can be easily changed to make it look like they didn't do it.

When I ran upstairs I saw a player named Cobalt standing there with a shotgun over a body that may have or may not have been id'ed, I don't remember. So at this point I was sure that Cobalt was either the killer of the guy on the stairs or had witnessed the firefight and let the murderer run past him without calling him out or shooting at him. So I killed Cobalt.

This is where your deduction turns into assumptions, @ReThink put it best:

I must say though your logic had a hole, which was that he just could have been nearby with a matching wep, and the real killer just went by unnoticed, which is possible, and apparently probable, based on what happened. That's why the no KOS on matching wep rule exists.

So because he was upstairs, standing over an un-ID'd body, holding a shotgun, you KOS'd him. You have no idea what Cobalt was or what the un-ID'd body was so you assumed he was the killer because of weapon and location alone, a weapon that literally 50% of this server uses because it takes no skill to use (nobody can deny that). Cobalt (if he was inno) could have actually killed the real killer and was about to check the body before you started firing.

Now to the report:
You put that he was shooting with a shotgun but you did not see Cobalt fire at all, you were going off of sound and location. That is an assumption you made that got you slayed for killing Cobalt.