[Amethyst Rockstar]

Hi everyone. I've been playing on this server for a few days and have mostly enjoyed my time here but I wanted to talk about something that happened about 20 minutes ago. This isn't in the staff abuse subforum because it wasn't abuse and it was just a slay, but I want to talk about why I was slayed and why it's stupid.

(Sorry, I don't know how to embed images)

If you're familiar with the newer WhiteHouse map in the rotation you'll know about this area that leads to the upstairs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...62073EB96/

I was standing a little ways away from that area when I heard several shotgun blasts. As I came into the hallway I saw a body on the stairs. I quickly checked in the security room to make sure no one was hiding, before I id'd the body which had been killed 9 seconds ago with a shotgun. This meant that the murderer could not have run past me, had a shotgun as their primary, and was upstairs. When I ran upstairs I saw a player named Cobalt standing there with a shotgun over a body that may have or may not have been id'ed, I don't remember. So at this point I was sure that Cobalt was either the killer of the guy on the stairs or had witnessed the firefight and let the murderer run past him without calling him out or shooting at him. So I killed Cobalt, who was a traitor, and was immediately killed by someone named Foxtrot, who was also a traitor and the actual killer of the guy on the stairs.

I was reported by Cobalt and slayed by Avi for RDM. I don't think I RDM'ed. I think I shot him in the original spirit of TTT, which, back when it began, was a game about thinking and deduction under pressure. I don't think it's in the spirit of TTT to slay me for doing that and I look forward to a discussion about this. I wonder how the staff feels about the easy traitor trick on minecraft_b5, which I can go into more detail about if anyone wants it.

[Mr_Rippe]

On this server, you can not KOS off of the primary weapon of anyone in the area. You can only KOS if you see someone killing another player or running away from an unID body that they clearly could not have missed.

[Generally_Suspicious]

This is unfortunately what is considered (loosely, or firmly) meta gaming.
Gathering information from deduction, assumption, or any otherwise means that is not firm and unchallenged (such as witnessing the kill or dna, for two main examples).
It is something that is not allowed on this particular server. As well most others for that matter from what I can tell.

---

Also; curious about this mine-craft trick. How ever i'm not sure we should disclose that information openly for people to understand and abuse. Probably discuss it with a higher staff in private such as @Mr_Rippe , @DaKody , or @"Mr Turner". Probably specifically Rippe since he is part of the Dev team.

[Amethyst Rockstar]

On this server, you can not KOS off of the primary weapon of anyone in the area. You can only KOS if you see someone killing another player or running away from an unID body that they clearly could not have missed.

The shotgun was just the cherry on top. Given his location, he was either the killer or had witnessed the kill and let the killer run past him which is traitorous.

This is unfortunately what is considered (loosely, or firmly) meta gaming.
Gathering information from deduction, assumption, or any otherwise means that is not firm and unchallenged (such as witnessing the kill or dna, for two main examples).
It is something that is not allowed on this particular server. As well most others for that matter from what I can tell.

---

Also; curious about this mine-craft trick. How ever i'm not sure we should disclose that information openly for people to understand and abuse. Probably discuss it with a higher staff in private such as @Mr_Rippe , @DaKody , or @"Mr Turner". Probably specifically Rippe since he is part of the Dev team.

See my above response.

As for the minecraft trick, it's not really a bug or exploit but it may look like RDM to an outside observer. Basically, at the beginning of the game you go into the nether and take note of anyone who's in there. Then go back into the real world and watch the portal. If anyone comes through the portal into the real world and you didn't see them go in and they weren't in there when you first checked, it means they came through the traitor room into the nether.

[Generally_Suspicious]

On this server, you can not KOS off of the primary weapon of anyone in the area. You can only KOS if you see someone killing another player or running away from an unID body that they clearly could not have missed.

The shotgun was just the cherry on top. Given his location, he was either the killer or had witnessed the kill and let the killer run past him which is traitorous.

This is unfortunately what is considered (loosely, or firmly) meta gaming.
Gathering information from deduction, assumption, or any otherwise means that is not firm and unchallenged (such as witnessing the kill or dna, for two main examples).
It is something that is not allowed on this particular server. As well most others for that matter from what I can tell.

---

Also; curious about this mine-craft trick. How ever i'm not sure we should disclose that information openly for people to understand and abuse. Probably discuss it with a higher staff in private such as @Mr_Rippe , @DaKody , or @"Mr Turner". Probably specifically Rippe since he is part of the Dev team.

See my above response.

As for the minecraft trick, it's not really a bug or exploit but it may look like RDM to an outside observer. Basically, at the beginning of the game you go into the nether and take note of anyone who's in there. Then go back into the real world and watch the portal. If anyone comes through the portal into the real world and you didn't see them go in and they weren't in there when you first checked, it means they came through the traitor room into the nether.

There's a number of reasons any gullible or trusting individual would walk away from a kill. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who isn't trigger happy. How ever a quick "They started it, I defended my self and finished it" can get you off the hook for a good minute or two.
That is borderline meta gaming. While yes the only other entrance is a T use only area; it's still high sus at best. Which is kos-able in over time how ever. 

Things like that you can how ever do are. Say there's you and 6 others left. 5 of those people are proven. You may now kill that other person. 
Say there's 2 non provens, you can in over time demand they fight each other under the penalty of high sus for not acting on it. Which again is kos in over time. 
Assumptions - not ok
Math - usually ok depending on how its gone about
What you're saying is really one of those things where it's all on how you explain it and execute it; whether you get away with it or not. 
If you did that at low pop times you might be fine. Try that with a full 32 person server and now we're all questioning how you possibly kept track of that many people when most of them are with out a doubt out of your sights.

---

As for the slay. Try calling a detective for DNA. Much more accurate results; less risk of slay.

[Avi]

If you're familiar with the newer WhiteHouse map in the rotation you'll know about this area that leads to the upstairs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...62073EB96/

I was standing a little ways away from that area when I heard several shotgun blasts. As I came into the hallway I saw a body on the stairs. I quickly checked in the security room to make sure no one was hiding, before I id'd the body which had been killed 9 seconds ago with a shotgun. This meant that the murderer could not have run past me, had a shotgun as their primary, and was upstairs. When I ran upstairs I saw a player named Cobalt standing there with a shotgun over a body that may have or may not have been id'ed, I don't remember. So at this point I was sure that Cobalt was either the killer of the guy on the stairs or had witnessed the firefight and let the murderer run past him without calling him out or shooting at him. So I killed Cobalt, who was a traitor, and was immediately killed by someone named Foxtrot, who was also a traitor and the actual killer of the guy on the stairs.

I was reported by Cobalt and slayed by Avi for RDM. I don't think I RDM'ed. I think I shot him in the original spirit of TTT, which, back when it began, was a game about thinking and deduction under pressure. I don't think it's in the spirit of TTT to slay me for doing that and I look forward to a discussion about this. I wonder how the staff feels about the easy traitor trick on minecraft_b5, which I can go into more detail about if anyone wants it.

So I went to handle this report and watched the death scene (couldn't record because of lag).  Foxtrot had killed the person on the stairwell with a shotgun.  Cobalt had been standing upstairs the entire time (not near the stairwell) until Foxtrot kills someone down the hallway. Cobalt goes towards the unid'd body until you start shooting at him, so he turns around and you killed him. You didn't give him time to id the body either.  In the report you stated that you "saw unided dead 9 seconds ago killed w/ shotgun and you were shooting with shotgun."  Which also wasn't a valid statement because he never shot with his shotgun.  So I slayed you on the basis that you killed Cobalt on suspicion based on the weapon Cobalt had.

Couple of ss of damage logs and report:
Damage logs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...397DD3FEB/
Rdm Report:  https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...18E576183/

[Amethyst Rockstar]

If you're familiar with the newer WhiteHouse map in the rotation you'll know about this area that leads to the upstairs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...62073EB96/

I was standing a little ways away from that area when I heard several shotgun blasts. As I came into the hallway I saw a body on the stairs. I quickly checked in the security room to make sure no one was hiding, before I id'd the body which had been killed 9 seconds ago with a shotgun. This meant that the murderer could not have run past me, had a shotgun as their primary, and was upstairs. When I ran upstairs I saw a player named Cobalt standing there with a shotgun over a body that may have or may not have been id'ed, I don't remember. So at this point I was sure that Cobalt was either the killer of the guy on the stairs or had witnessed the firefight and let the murderer run past him without calling him out or shooting at him. So I killed Cobalt, who was a traitor, and was immediately killed by someone named Foxtrot, who was also a traitor and the actual killer of the guy on the stairs.

I was reported by Cobalt and slayed by Avi for RDM. I don't think I RDM'ed. I think I shot him in the original spirit of TTT, which, back when it began, was a game about thinking and deduction under pressure. I don't think it's in the spirit of TTT to slay me for doing that and I look forward to a discussion about this. I wonder how the staff feels about the easy traitor trick on minecraft_b5, which I can go into more detail about if anyone wants it.

So I went to handle this report and watched the death scene (couldn't record because of lag).  Foxtrot had killed the person on the stairwell with a shotgun.  Cobalt had been standing upstairs the entire time (not near the stairwell) until Foxtrot kills someone down the hallway. Cobalt goes towards the unid'd body until you start shooting at him, so he turns around and you killed him. You didn't give him time to id the body either.  In the report you stated that you "saw unided dead 9 seconds ago killed w/ shotgun and you were shooting with shotgun."  Which also wasn't a valid statement because he never shot with his shotgun.  So I slayed you on the basis that you killed Cobalt on suspicion based on the weapon Cobalt had.

Couple of ss of damage logs and report:
Damage logs: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...397DD3FEB/
Rdm Report:  https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/u...18E576183/

Where was he upstairs? If he was where I saw him standing then he must have seen the firefight, or at least heard the sounds, probably seen a bullet or two hit the wall, and seen someone run away without identifying a body. That's traitorous, is it not?

As for him shooting, I thought I saw him shooting, but I guess I heard Foxtrot killing Ghostface and saw Cobalt with a shotgun. It still doesn't matter - he was caught with his pants down based on spatial reasoning.

[Avi]

From what I saw in the deathscene, he was standing still near where that hallway becomes smaller and right before you ided the body he started moving down the hallway towards the unided body. You started shooting and he turned around and you killed him.

[ReThink]

This is unfortunately what is considered (loosely, or firmly) meta gaming.
Gathering information from deduction, assumption, or any otherwise means that is not firm and unchallenged (such as witnessing the kill or dna, for two main examples).
It is something that is not allowed on this particular server. As well most others for that matter from what I can tell.

---

Also; curious about this mine-craft trick. How ever i'm not sure we should disclose that information openly for people to understand and abuse. Probably discuss it with a higher staff in private such as @Mr_Rippe , @DaKody , or @"Mr Turner". Probably specifically Rippe since he is part of the Dev team.

That's not even close to what metagaming is, kiddo. He was using in-game (and intended) features to make his decision (death timer on body, killwep, logic), which was merely against server rules (which warranted a slay), but was NOT metagaming.

EDIT: Examples of metagaming are, but are not limited to: KOSing off of skin, ghosting, targeting based off of (alleged) top traitor rewards, and claiming people stop to "access the T menu"

[Amethyst Rockstar]

This is unfortunately what is considered (loosely, or firmly) meta gaming.
Gathering information from deduction, assumption, or any otherwise means that is not firm and unchallenged (such as witnessing the kill or dna, for two main examples).
It is something that is not allowed on this particular server. As well most others for that matter from what I can tell.

---

Also; curious about this mine-craft trick. How ever i'm not sure we should disclose that information openly for people to understand and abuse. Probably discuss it with a higher staff in private such as @Mr_Rippe , @DaKody , or @"Mr Turner". Probably specifically Rippe since he is part of the Dev team.

That's not even close to what metagaming is, kiddo. He was using in-game (and intended) features to make his decision (death timer on body, killwep, logic), which was merely against server rules (which warranted a slay), but was NOT metagaming.

It's good to see someone gets it, at least. I've been off TTT for about 3 years and it's really disheartening to see that you apparently can't even play the game the way it was intended anymore.