[lance (2)]

I wasn't paying too much attention at the time but after what I thought yesterday and reviewing the video today, it seemed like it was them talking shit back and forth to each other in a roast battle of sorts. The only thing Xomazzi seemed genuinely upset about (and the only thing they continued to seem to be upset about during this encounter) was that caribou was singing and yelling into their mic, and to be fair it was a bit loud and I think staff partake in favoritism toward them since they are pretty globally liked by everyone (however I do kind of recall you micspamming too Monkey, so in that regard it'd be a bit hypocritical).
Mazzi should probably not have been permagagged at all, but they were immediately unpermagagged seconds later so it's not as big a deal. Still a bit interesting that it happened to them and not caribou. It seems like caribou was gagged later on for around the same amount of time, albeit it not being a permagag.

Imo, if there's anything that happens here it should be some kind of review on how staff treat micspam and their punishments for it. It seems like a lot of the more-known players can get away with micspam while guests and such are immediately gagged and the enforcement on micspam seems pretty inconsistent, especially as of late. Micspam seems to be enforced differently depending on how tolerant others are of it, which I think is a bad way to approach things; a mic that is clipping/overly loud should always be micspam, singing should always be micspam (if cruise is an exception to this rule it should be listed), etc. This rule should not be enforced on a case-by-case basis like this when the microphones are blatantly/intentionally loud like this.

This report is not about me. Feel free to write a report on me if you want.

No player on the server behaves like this! Even when there are no admins on the server, we can calmly settle something. The player naturally yells into the microphone for 15 minutes, in the presence of the administrator. Imagine what would happen if the administrator was not on the server? (and he wasn't there anyway, as if there was no one.)

Never said this was a report on you, just noting it because I can't stand hypocrisy.
Also donors are able to gag and mute if no staff are online/if no staff are active (I would consider dong active). So perhaps it would not be as apocalyptic as you mention.
This is beyond the point though, I do not think caribou was intentionally trying to harm this person outside of joking around, seemingly with them. This report being made on their behalf too might be missing some context, i.e had Mazzi made this report themselves it'd be obvious they were upset and thought they were harassed/belittled. But you are kind of assuming for Mazzi that they were offended. It's kind of like those cultural appropriation tweets, where someone will step in and be like "omg this is so offensive" yet the culture actually being referenced does not care.

[Gabe]

I'm curious to hear from Killah here, since it seems like he was one of the staff online while this whole thing unfolded. I think the big takeaway of this thread is less of what happens to them as a result of this (not to say there should be zero punishment, but I don't expect anything major like bans or demotions) but more of what can be done in the future to prevent it. I was going to say similar things that Setro rightfully pointed out, so I will just reiterate. In the short time that I have been sparingly gotten on lately I've noticed that mic spam seems to be more of a selective enforcement rather than a universal enforcement to the extent that it becomes problematic. I have witnessed a lot more post-round mic spam and some other things that can qualify as mic spam such as singing. This is to say that if a guest was doing what Caribou was doing they likely would not have gotten as much leeway as Caribou did. The rules still state that mic spamming includes singing, yelling, and excessive speaking. Constant obnoxious noises can count too, which sometimes happens. I think it's fine for singing if everyone is alright with it, but if it truly bothers someone and it spirals out of control, like it seems partly in this case, they shouldn't be allowed to do it. No excuse for the obnoxious yelling though I'd say though it seems that the "victim" in this did keep egging it on as well, so, not one person seems at fault here. There were certainly better ways each party could have handled it.

Should be an internal conversation among the staff about how to go about developing a new universal way of enforcing mic spam, its limits, when to step in, and how to use discretion with it. It should ultimately be less selective. I love to have fun and enjoy hearing things like Caribou's singing in-game, but it has to be fair to everyone to avoid things like this. We need to not over police mic-spam so we can enjoy ourselves but we have to set some barriers with it across the board so it doesn't become arbitrary enforcement.

As far as punishments go, I don't think anything here is ban worthy given the circumstances. I would argue that there really shouldn't be any "punishment" for this (so "-1" in that respect). The "punishment" should just be an internal and then a community discussion about how mic spam should be dealt with across the board. Which is just more of being accountable than punishment for something that amounts to no more than some late night antics that got a bit out of control. No, I will not comment on the other thread because as I predicted, it's already getting buried and less attention.

*many edits cus I am watching as I go but I think I am done now, peace*

[Mr. Kat]

I wasn't paying too much attention at the time but after what I thought yesterday and reviewing the video today, it seemed like it was them talking shit back and forth to each other in a roast battle of sorts. The only thing Xomazzi seemed genuinely upset about (and the only thing they continued to seem to be upset about during this encounter) was that caribou was singing and yelling into their mic, and to be fair it was a bit loud and I think staff partake in favoritism toward them since they are pretty globally liked by everyone (however I do kind of recall you micspamming too Monkey, so in that regard it'd be a bit hypocritical).
Mazzi should probably not have been permagagged at all, but they were immediately unpermagagged seconds later so it's not as big a deal. Still a bit interesting that it happened to them and not caribou. It seems like caribou was gagged later on for around the same amount of time, albeit it not being a permagag.

Imo, if there's anything that happens here it should be some kind of review on how staff treat micspam and their punishments for it. It seems like a lot of the more-known players can get away with micspam while guests and such are immediately gagged and the enforcement on micspam seems pretty inconsistent, especially as of late. Micspam seems to be enforced differently depending on how tolerant others are of it, which I think is a bad way to approach things; a mic that is clipping/overly loud should always be micspam, singing should always be micspam (if cruise is an exception to this rule it should be listed), etc. This rule should not be enforced on a case-by-case basis like this when the microphones are blatantly/intentionally loud like this.

This report is not about me. Feel free to write a report on me if you want.

No player on the server behaves like this! Even when there are no admins on the server, we can calmly settle something. The player naturally yells into the microphone for 15 minutes, in the presence of the administrator. Imagine what would happen if the administrator was not on the server? (and he wasn't there anyway, as if there was no one.)

Never said this was a report on you, just noting it because I can't stand hypocrisy.
Also donors are able to gag and mute if no staff are online/if no staff are active (I would consider dong active). So perhaps it would not be as apocalyptic as you mention.
This is beyond the point though, I do not think caribou was intentionally trying to harm this person outside of joking around, seemingly with them. This report being made on their behalf too might be missing some context, i.e had Mazzi made this report themselves it'd be obvious they were upset and thought they were harassed/belittled. But you are kind of assuming for Mazzi that they were offended. It's kind of like those cultural appropriation tweets, where someone will step in and be like "omg this is so offensive" yet the culture actually being referenced does not care.

Let's not litter this report with nonsense. We will wait for the other participants and how they see it.
I wasn't offended for Mazzy, I don't like it when a player yells into the microphone and prevents others from playing. Especially when there is an administrator on the server. That's right, you can mute him in tab, but it can't be limited to that. Review all the video.And not just excerpts. His behavior is unacceptable. And the inaction of the administrator depresses me.
Ps: If you want to discuss something about the video or with me, you can contact me via discord.

[bart simpson fan]

I watched the video and the only thing I could make of it was late night banter and having fun. Yes, I believe it got out of hand, but that’s probably the only thing caribou was at fault for: Mic Spamming. Another thing about Dong is that his only problem in this video was muting Xo, but I believe this wasn’t with Ill intent because the “argument” still continued after. Overall, if you wanted to not listen to them you could just mute them.

-1

[Mr. Kat]

I'm curious to hear from Killah here, since it seems like he was one of the staff online while this whole thing unfolded. I think the big takeaway of this thread is less of what happens to them as a result of this (not to say there should be zero punishment, but I don't expect anything major like bans or demotions) but more of what can be done in the future to prevent it. I was going to say similar things that Setro rightfully pointed out, so I will just reiterate. In the short time that I have been sparingly gotten on lately I've noticed that mic spam seems to be more of a selective enforcement rather than a universal enforcement to the extent that it becomes problematic. I have witnessed a lot more post-round mic spam and some other things that can qualify as mic spam such as singing. This is to say that if a guest was doing what Caribou was doing they likely would not have gotten as much leeway as Caribou did. The rules still state that mic spamming includes singing, yelling, and excessive speaking. Constant obnoxious noises can count too, which sometimes happens. I think it's fine for singing if everyone is alright with it, but if it truly bothers someone and it spirals out of control, like it seems partly in this case, they shouldn't be allowed to do it. No excuse for the obnoxious yelling though I'd say though it seems that the "victim" in this did keep egging it on as well, so, not one person seems at fault here. There were certainly better ways each party could have handled it.

Should be an internal conversation among the staff about how to go about developing a new universal way of enforcing mic spam, its limits, when to step in, and how to use discretion with it. It should ultimately be less selective. I love to have fun and enjoy hearing things like Caribou's singing in-game, but it has to be fair to everyone to avoid things like this. We need to not over police mic-spam so we can enjoy ourselves but we have to set some barriers with it across the board so it doesn't become arbitrary enforcement.

As far as punishments go, I don't think anything here is ban worthy given the circumstances. I would argue that there really shouldn't be any "punishment" for this (so "-1" in that respect). The "punishment" should just be an internal and then a community discussion about how mic spam should be dealt with across the board. Which is just more of being accountable than punishment for something that amounts to no more than some late night antics that got a bit out of control. No, I will not comment on the other thread because as I predicted, it's already getting buried and less attention.

*many edits cus I am watching as I go but I think I am done now, peace*

The answer 2 this is really simple: Screaming/mic spam=verbal warning=>gag=>warn
The end.
Ps:There is no discussion. If u are having fun=HAVE FUN!But not insult someone 2 have fun! Wtf?! The administrator only needed to intervene in this shit show. Ask not to break the rules, and not to break them yourself. (Just do what the rules say.)

What kind of person will get pleasure and fun from shouting and insults? It's all strange.

[voidzz]

First, I want to start off with how you just wasted 15 minutes of my life. That was the dumbest video I've ever watched, and watching you play like an NPC for 15 mins blew my brain. My favorite part was when you scoped in with an mp9 to kill the RC and still died early.

Next for Caribou: Reason to Ban: Harrassment and targeting. This video, VERY clearly shows caribou and xomazzi going back and forth, this is not harassment especially if the two players are going back and forth the whole time, even when things have chilled out for a bit mazzi starts up again. This all started as Mazzi rdm'd caribou on cruise for singing, something 95% of the server is fine with. -1 for caribou ban, dumb thread worse gameplay

Next for dong: Inaction and indulgence. You claim that dong was sitting afk ignoring what was happening, but by the time you started complaining in admin chat the yelling had already calmed down. You proceeded to bother dong with more admin chat when literally nothing was happening. Dong's permagag on Mazzi is not that deep, i even believe it was a joke one, dong does permagags then unpermagags a few seconds later instead of normal gags, it's literally just banter, and he did end up gagging caribou and ungagging him later so it's even. -1 NPC post lmfao

As for killah: Killah had warned them both to chill multiple times, you can even see it in chat that he says they're wasting time going back and forth and he eventually ends up gagging mazzi for continuing, I don't think he did wrong here, only thing he might've missed is gagging caribou (which i believe wasn't warranted)

I personally don't think you should be filling out harassment forms for other players unless they have stated they were harassed, to which then they can make their own thread and you can provide supporting evidence.

Also, with you claiming all of these things, for example you claiming caribou was silent when he was gagged, are you dumb? You were alive so you have absolutely no idea, unless you have counter evidence that caribou was silent right before he was gagged.
Lets pick out a few more choice words: You claim that dong said caribou did nothing wrong, this is not presented in the video, he just said caribou has stopped which is a valid response, you go on further to say he condoned caribous behavior while mazzi was the one that started getting into it with dong as well. Dumb take
You also claim caribou rdmd mazzi, but in the video you're in console looking at status for absolutely no reason evident. How do you know mazzi didn't shoot at caribou? How do you know it was rdm? Was caribou slayed for this?
You have too many choice words in this forum with lack of evidence for a majority of them.

Client-side mutes are always a thing, especially granted that a lot of staff go by what the majority of the server wants. Whenever caribou is on/singing/doing whatever, 95% of the server (myself included) enjoy it very much, it brings some life to the server in terms of humor/etc. It makes no sense to gag someone that 95% of the server is listening to because one person does not like it (granted it's not slurs etc)

TLDR: The insults were by choice, and it was two-sided, not one sided towards mazzi. -1

[shaye]

cant ban caribou just like you can't take playground insults! Have a nice day!

[LemonTiara]

Ps:There is no discussion. If u are having fun=HAVE FUN!But not insult someone 2 have fun! Wtf?! The administrator only needed to intervene in this shit show. Ask not to break the rules, and not to break them yourself. (Just do what the rules say.)

What kind of person will get pleasure and fun from shouting and insults? It's all strange.

It's a videogame. Anyone who plays games shouts and insults, for fun or out of frustration. Insults = big part of gamers vocab lol. You may or may not like this but it's how it is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . You can't start cutting off insults or there'd be no players left in the game.

Should it stop if the person they are directed at is getting offeded/it's turning into something more serious? yes. Most cases, insults aren't even meant for anyone in particular / it's the way to express frustration, it's not a way of "having fun".

Also, -snip- previous posts you are replying to, please.

[Salty]

I'm going to add a couple things on this thread since this one buried the second one you made, and doing some further investigation of said video plus reading over other's perspectives:



Dong permagagging a man for 2 seconds as a joke isn't an issue; the only issue I really have with what transpired is that it took 7 minutes and 5 seconds of arguing/screaming for caribou to get gagged. I understand that late night is a different breed from the other time frames of the server, but I still feel that was a little bit of a mishandle. Rather than chalking that up to abuse however, I agree with what Gabe said and there probably needs to be a reclarification on when to intervene for micspam or when to just "let it happen" per say. 


I have changed my vote to a -1 though because this was not harassment because as I had stated previously, Mazzi instigated the argument and dwelled on the issue. Caribou attempted to drop the issue from what I saw, and then started to clap back at Mazzi alongside with dong. You also filed this on Mazzi's behalf, who I am not sure even uses the forums.


There shouldn't be any punishment administered here; instead, just understand that if something is bothering you like that, you need to say something to staff much sooner than 9 minutes into dealing with it. If I were in your shoes, I would've probably already asked a staff member to intervene or I would've told them to shut the fuck up myself. 


As for trying to strike dong with abuse, that probably isn't a solid idea either. Inaction on YOUR part is what made this seem to be an issue, as it seems that your annoyance could've been avoided by holding TAB, clicking the mic icon on their names, and muting them. Clientside muting is a thing for you. Since you're not staff, you aren't required to listen to everyone to ensure they aren't saying inappropriate things, you have the leisure of turning people down and muting them. 

I advise you that if something annoys you in the future to make a complaint sooner on rather than later.

[Jammin]

Dong did nothing bannable.
Caribou at most probably get a mic spam warn, but once staff actually took action the situation was resolved.
It sounds like this stopped in eclipse per the evidence we have available.
Mic spam rules should probably get looked at, but this isn't the place for that.

Tl, Dr insert Gabe's answer here.
-1