[Foxka]

I already addressed in a previous reply why the "criticism" was deleted and that he discussed it with me beforehand. See my first post. I'd appreciate it if that was read. I don't want to repeat myself for something I already said. But I am willing to elaborate if people request that. otherwise, I'm just going to refer back to my previous comments and have people read those first if it seems like they haven't (just in general, I'm not calling out anyone specifically with this).

I read it, I'm not arguing whether deleting it was warranted or not. I'm saying that, regardless of if it was warranted, it was not a good way to build trust.

Sure, perhaps on the surface it could have been handled better, I could have done it if I wasn't preoccupied or said to wait until I could get to it. But, as I said before, context and intent matters. We shouldn't be getting strung up on that

My apologies. I will say "recent" instead to make that distinction more clear.

My point beyond semantics is that there are recent concerns being raised, not just ones from years ago like your previous posts have implied. Your request for trust on his behalf is predicated on him having changed since then, but there are still recent issues people have stated that have been ignored or downplayed (telling someone to kill themself in the CSGO tournament, using staff chat for drama, slurs etc in  his discord). This is not just people being stuck in the past, these are active, unresolved issues that people are stating as reasons they don't trust that he has changed sufficiently, and trying to sweep them under the rug only further damages their ability to trust both him and you.

I haven't been ignoring them. I'm trying to be as transparent as I can, there are a lot of comments so I'll miss some or not reply to them fully to get to others.

I feel like the context for most of these "recent" points matters. For the streaming drama in staff discord with a few staff friends, that one I genuinely don't see what the issue is, especially if it's just an observation rather than someone physically being present in the call to know what's happening.
Staff voice channels are the most informal part of the entire staff discord. Nothing serious happens in them for the most part. Streaming old drama is just a fun pastime for most people in the community, I'm sure many people have done that before. I don't get how that impact staffing abilities or shows any concern here. This one i truly see as a non-issue

For the CS:GO Tournament, I don't recall that off the top of my head or know the context behind it. So I haven't touched that one yet.

Using slurs in another private discord is also something I'm not sure I understand how it impacts staffing, judgment, etc. I think it's just grasping at straws. That's my honest answer. I'm sure there are other people in this community, both staff and non-staff alike, slur in areas not related to this community. You can probably search  up slurs in a lot of dink's "splinter discords" and find a whole basket full of slurs from staff members and non-staff members. As long as someone knows the expectations of how to behave in OUR community, know what is allowed and what isn't, knows not to say those slurs, etc I don't think it's a huge deal. We can't control what people do outside of our community with things like that. If we police that, then that truly turns us into a tyranny. It matters how they act and present themselves in our community (i.e our discord, forums, servers). if it involves harassment of other members or something that can extend to our community, that's different. but saying slurs is something I've never really had a concern with unless it directly impacts behavior in our community.

It is more than something that impacts staffing it is a clear indicator of lack of good character and morals. IDC what happened a long time ago in regards to people slurring, in fact I will admit I also said slurs when i was younger here, but that was a long time ago. These issues are not in the past they are recurrent and I personally do not support any person let alone staff member that continues to say awful things and tell people to kill themselves on the regular. Outside dinks shows how people really act and behave and saying it doesn't matter is negligent and exactly what people mean when we say "swept under the rug". There is no Tyranny, this is just a fabrication and should have no consideration in regards to disallowing awful behaviors to continue. To be clear here, I am not referring just to slurring. And to say it does not extend into our community is just plain ignorant and serves no purpose other than to invalidate well-established information.

I know the situation here and can just flat out tell you that he told another player on an opposing team to kill themselves, regardless if joking or not it is not okay and will never be ok. I'm positive it was "gamer talk" because it was in response to someone using a gun or something he didn't like. Either way this is unacceptable and I regret not acting on it out of fear of backlash.

I brought this up specifically to drive the point home that laced is not taking anything said here seriously and is *actively* making fun of valid criticisms and attempting to invalidate any negative feedback he is accruing (see previous complaint about deletion of posts)

[chelllman]

Alright, after going through all the responses at this point, I do have some comments/questions for clarification.

1. Has Laced shown any favoritism/targeting towards people on the TTT server? He's been staff for TTT for months now, so I feel like we would have seen problems arise at this point. As TTT staff, he can silence/abuse players on the TTT server - has he done so at all? From what I've been told, he's been doing just fine as TTT staff which was the primary thing I was concerned about when discussing him joining the forum team. If he hasn't had any issues on the TTT server, what leads you to believe he will silence people/show favoritism on the forums? If he has had issues on the TTT server since joining staff a few months ago, did you report it to the TTT admins?

2. I'm fully aware that people can have toxic pasts, but I also believe that people are capable of change/growth. Maybe I see things in a different light since I joined Dinks in early 2021.
I think a lot of people think that Laced will have free reign of the forums. This is not the case. The admin team will be able to watch what he does on the forums. Rest assured, if we see favoritism/targeting, we will raise the issue just like we would with any other staff member.

[reinaberg]

I hope that neither side of the major argument that has happened on this thread comes away from this thinking that they have added to the discussion in a way that should affect the decision, because there were very few reasonable comments in this thread.

So what I'm getting from this as that none of these opinions matter and that the thread is useless, gotcha. Again may I ask, is this place not for discussions? Doesn't matter if YOU think its useless because for others it is useful.

Holy moly, I said the exact opposite of what you’re saying here multiple times in my response. It’s not productive to cherry pick the very last sentence from my post and treat that as the entire message. If you were to read the rest of it, you’d see that I said there were many valid opinions in this thread and i only find the empty criticisms and compliments I’ve seen being used for personal attacks to be unconstructive.

[Jammin]

iight a couple of things from based jammin:
1. I do like the idea of web staff apps, I feel any "dogpiling" that occurs wouldn't be a significant issue when filtering out any strawman arguments and just looking at objective criticism.
Plus Laced's discord app allowed me to powermod the forums for a day ;) I think an admin/web staff chat behind closed doors is appropriate for the decision making process, but I also think community support should be included.
2. This is the place for discussion, and I think Laced should be open to criticism just like anyone else, which I think he is. I also don't think anyone's being censored here other than obvious shitposts.
3. I don't think the "yikes" comment was an issue imo, but it was probably best to have a separate thread to discuss issues with Laced being web staff. Again, having web staff apps fixes this :)
4. For the record, I didn't give my support when discussing in web chat, but ultimately said I would not oppose Gabe adding Laced. I didn't really give a +/-1 to Gabe.
5. Something that should be made clear is that Web Mod now is significantly shallower in scope than it used to be. Laced only has moderation powers in a limited scope, and doesn't have access to other account/forum info that admins do. That played a role in my lack of opposition - had there been IP access, I would have opposed.
6. Something I feel isn't being acknowledged is that people change over time. I think Laced's turnaround is more than "keeping face for a few months."
7. This is the first im hearing of any bad things being said during the cs:go tournament. It seems like folks are grasping at straws here for a one-off semi-questionable comment.
8. I do think slur usage no matter what "server" it is part of isn't a good look.
9. Thank you to the community for keeping the drama in here and not the discord, lowering my grey hair count for a day

---

10. I've slept for roughly 7 hours total this week so I could easily be off base with my commentary

[Noire ♜]

damn i love jammin and will gladly take 20% warning for saying it.

i totally agree

[misstie6731]

9. Thank you to the community for keeping the drama in here and not the discord, lowering my grey hair count for a day

---

You're welcome.

[BIIG_SAD]

I am going to eat a warn/lose favor with people.

but, man. everyone took a mole hill and made mount everest.
all of this could have been avoided with a DM of "hey battons, this is a shitpost as it is right now, can you elaborate?" or something similar, not ten pages of this.

I dont know. to me, the whole thing seems a tad escalatory (from both sides; one more than the other, depends who you ask). Mabye, instead of escalating on the forums, mabye try to use it for the intended purposes of mediation and de-escalation?


also, if I can be super candid here, my 2 cents would be: ask some questions and talk it over instead of taking a stance and digging in. would have saved a lot of people from reading 10 pages of this:




at the end of the day, we are all here to enjoy the people and the game. So lets get on to doing just that.


inb4 comment deleted or I get -1 into oblivion.

[Nicol Bolas]

Snip

Are you telling me a significant portion of all Dinks Drama© could be resolved by people simply being rational and having actual discussion?

Crazy man.

[Grump]

also, if I can be super candid here, my 2 cents would be: ask some questions and talk it over instead of taking a stance and digging in. would have saved a lot of people from reading 10 pages of this:

could have been less than 10 pages if people didn't cherry pick and actually read what other people had to say, ya know?

[Kaiwan]

Holy shit I missed so much drama. How could I have let this happen???
But seriously.... WOW
I loved Laced, and I don't think they have any malicious intent, but people have raised VALID concerns and criticisms here. I usually don't agree with most of them, either. This promotion should have been proposed to the community in some way. It's not difficult to see where people are coming from when they say that this seems like favoritism.
Maybe we should just, idk, have a 'Should Laced be Promoted to Web Mod' thread. It's not actually too late to do that, y'know?