[reinaberg]

Also I'm "rude" to Levi because he constantly likes to trash and talk shit on me for being gay and a furry.

I found this line concerning. If you have evidence of this, I would recommend contacting Norm or DMing that evidence to the ModMail bot on the Discord server (visible near the top of the user list).

I don’t intend to make this the topic of discussion or derail the thread, just a suggestion separate from the ongoing discussion. I do agree, however, that it would be best to take a break.

[StrenuousSpider]

Just an FYI, punishment guidelines are not the be all, end all on how you can be punished for breaking a rule. They exist to guide the staff on how to deal with situations, but the severity of rule breaking (e.g. telling someone to kill themselves does fall under harassment, but is punished harsher than normal harassment) also can play a factor in how punishments are given.

A regular player who is a constant problem can also have their other punishments factored in, to show that they have had numerous chances to stop their antics and haven't, which seems to be the case here.

My advice: take a break, whether this is accepted or not, and chill out a little. You gain nothing from being an ass to others over a game.

Except for the simple fact that they never punished her for such actions and continued to ignore them. If she had been punished for such actions it would then make sense for the Perma ban. however she again only has one ban and saying they are quidelines and not be all rules is just a fancy way of saying there are rules but we make them up as we go. There was a similar situation that the exact same thing was said yet in that situation it was stated they had to follow the guidelines with Chellmen even copy pasting the punishments and quoting the way it should be handled. Again its not fair to use past things that had been known but were chosen to be ignored, As it brings up the issue of getting evidence towards someone and not caring until they do something you dont like and now want them gone, or just downright blackmailing someone. Yes i know thats a extreme case and thing to say but its vary much a possibility, even more so when we have cases of not so child friendly things that have happened in the past on this server as a whole. not saying thats the case here but its a vary easy thing to manipulate.

But if yall want to continue to punish how yall feel and guidelines be damned then so be it, but i still believe you should not be using things she was never punished for as any bases to make this offense worse. If you wanted to start punishing her for the rude behavior now then fine and fair. but yall again chose to ignore it just as yall chose to ignore the RDMs the staff have done even when they were unwanted. so if her unpunished rule breaks were to be counted then why is it only hers? I never wanted to bring up the fact that staff have broken the same rules they are supposed to follow, however if her past that was ignored and nows not then where is the bans for many of the staff, and many of the regulars on the server. I dont imagine they will ever come, and bringing up what was ignored just seems like a attempt to justify skipping the rules punishments for what? Ive seen many times in the past of people being unbanned from a perma ban due to "Changing" and there past offense ignored. If actual legit bans are being dismissed then why is it fair for Phantom to be punished for things shes done that yall never did anything about. How can she begin to change that behavior if yall just kept letting it slide. How can she get better are controlling her temper if yall just enabled the behavior. If she was such a issue that yall claim you should have done something then and not using it now to make this punishment worse. I agree she should be punished, she agrees as well, but not with a perma but with how the guides say its should be handled. Telling her she needs a break is no ones business but her own, only she can decide that for herself. I dont see myself getting told i need a break even tho i play just as much if not more then phantom, i dont see many PH players getting told this either. So its a vary weird thing to constantly bring up as it has no importance to the rule thats been broken.

Telling someone to kill themselves is not listed as something thats not tolerated just something thats punished. racism is the only one thats listed in red if i recall correctly. Maybe change the rules to fit how you want it punished, but as they stand this is not perma banable by any case, this was not even a severe case pretty mild. Now that brings into the question of the they are only guides and we dont have to follow them or so thats how i understand what you are saying. Then there is no bases for admin abuse when it comes to bans, they can just claim that they thought it was severe enough to them, as it would be going off the opinion of a mod to mod bases and not a set guide of rules, harassment is not pixel hunting in PH so there should be no opinion to opinion bases here, or to give a closer example RDM and how its not punished if the two people dont care and are friends, to which i think should be written down and made concrete. I mean i always read them as a set guide of rules to be followed by everyone including staff. and if the staff can just go and do as they please when it comes to punishment then that needs changed. I dont think the rules and the punishments for breaking them were ever created for the mods to just twist to their own liking. Rules are rules and punishments are punishments, and i believe they should be followed. However i do think rules can be changed and are not without fault but thats another thread itself and i wont go into detail on that here.

Im not saying phantom is innocent, what she did was wrong and she knows that and feels bad enough about it already. However i do believe this should be reduced to a week ban.

[Carson]

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I'm gonna make this as quick as possible. 1, you cannot see staff chat, and you do not know if and how she's been punished. She has been slayed warned, etc. RDM 4 times is a week ban, and while I don't know why she didn't serve the week ban, she did serve the 24 hour. Her actions were NOT ignored, and she had many chances to stop. Even if they were, she should know not to be breaking the rules as she not only knows the rules, she has also seen many times them be enforced "I never wanted to bring up the fact that staff have broken the same rules they are supposed to follow" could you PLEASE provide evidence? I myself have accidentally rdm'ed once or twice, but that is about it. I'm not gonna ban myself when I have people to deal with. "Ive seen many times in the past of people being unbanned from a perma ban due to "Changing" and there past offense ignored" almost always they are unbanned due to the fact that the ban was old, or that we actually know they changed, and are better now. If they happen to break the rules again, they will be immediately permabanned again. "How can she get better are controlling her temper if yall just enabled the behavior" again, we need proof of this. Nothing can be done if no proof is given. We are NOT telling phan to take a break because she plays a lot, we are telling her that because she gets angered over small things, which leads to her being rude to other players (just like in the video august showed). "Telling someone to kill themselves is not listed as something thats not tolerated just something thats punished. racism is the only one thats listed in red if i recall correctly." I do not see your point. In every dinks server telling someone to kill themselves has been something that is punished more harshly than other harassment rules. This is a VERY known thing. Also, suicide is listed under the "Limit and/or avoid sensitive topics" rule, and while I agree it should be more stated, it is still there and is more severely punished. "they are only guides and we dont have to follow them or so thats how i understand what you are saying." That is not what laced said. The guidelines are to guide staff on how to deal with situations as he said, but if the rule breaking is more severe then punishments can be escalated faster (ex: someone says a slur once, they will be gagged/muted, but if they spam that slur, chances are they are going to get banned). This is why in many of the guidelines it says "ban based on severity of situation." "Then there is no bases for admin abuse when it comes to bans, they can just claim that they thought it was severe enough to them, as it would be going off the opinion of a mod to mod bases and not a set guide of rules." This is not true. Not only is that mod/admin going to have to show proof if that player makes an unban/staff abuse report, they still have to follow the guidelines and rules if it is not severe enough. "harassment is not pixel hunting in PH so there should be no opinion to opinion bases here" I do not see how this matters. The guidelines and rules is something everyone, staff included, have to follow. NO one is twisted the rules and punishments. Phan broke multiple rules and her ban was escalated to a permaban.

[StrenuousSpider]

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Except for the simple fact that they never punished her for such actions and continued to ignore them. If she had been punished for such actions it would then make sense for the Perma ban. however she again only has one ban and saying they are quidelines and not be all rules is just a fancy way of saying there are rules but we make them up as we go. There was a similar situation that the exact same thing was said yet in that situation it was stated they had to follow the guidelines with Chellmen even copy pasting the punishments and quoting the way it should be handled. Again its not fair to use past things that had been known but were chosen to be ignored, As it brings up the issue of getting evidence towards someone and not caring until they do something you dont like and now want them gone, or just downright blackmailing someone. Yes i know thats a extreme case and thing to say but its vary much a possibility, even more so when we have cases of not so child friendly things that have happened in the past on this server as a whole. not saying thats the case here but its a vary easy thing to manipulate.

But if yall want to continue to punish how yall feel and guidelines be damned then so be it, but i still believe you should not be using things she was never punished for as any bases to make this offense worse. If you wanted to start punishing her for the rude behavior now then fine and fair. but yall again chose to ignore it just as yall chose to ignore the RDMs the staff have done even when they were unwanted. so if her unpunished rule breaks were to be counted then why is it only hers? I never wanted to bring up the fact that staff have broken the same rules they are supposed to follow, however if her past that was ignored and nows not then where is the bans for many of the staff, and many of the regulars on the server. I dont imagine they will ever come, and bringing up what was ignored just seems like a attempt to justify skipping the rules punishments for what? Ive seen many times in the past of people being unbanned from a perma ban due to "Changing" and there past offense ignored. If actual legit bans are being dismissed then why is it fair for Phantom to be punished for things shes done that yall never did anything about. How can she begin to change that behavior if yall just kept letting it slide. How can she get better are controlling her temper if yall just enabled the behavior. If she was such a issue that yall claim you should have done something then and not using it now to make this punishment worse. I agree she should be punished, she agrees as well, but not with a perma but with how the guides say its should be handled. Telling her she needs a break is no ones business but her own, only she can decide that for herself. I dont see myself getting told i need a break even tho i play just as much if not more then phantom, i dont see many PH players getting told this either. So its a vary weird thing to constantly bring up as it has no importance to the rule thats been broken.

Telling someone to kill themselves is not listed as something thats not tolerated just something thats punished. racism is the only one thats listed in red if i recall correctly. Maybe change the rules to fit how you want it punished, but as they stand this is not perma banable by any case, this was not even a severe case pretty mild. Now that brings into the question of the they are only guides and we dont have to follow them or so thats how i understand what you are saying. Then there is no bases for admin abuse when it comes to bans, they can just claim that they thought it was severe enough to them, as it would be going off the opinion of a mod to mod bases and not a set guide of rules, harassment is not pixel hunting in PH so there should be no opinion to opinion bases here, or to give a closer example RDM and how its not punished if the two people dont care and are friends, to which i think should be written down and made concrete. I mean i always read them as a set guide of rules to be followed by everyone including staff. and if the staff can just go and do as they please when it comes to punishment then that needs changed. I dont think the rules and the punishments for breaking them were ever created for the mods to just twist to their own liking. Rules are rules and punishments are punishments, and i believe they should be followed. However i do think rules can be changed and are not without fault but thats another thread itself and i wont go into detail on that here.

Im not saying phantom is innocent, what she did was wrong and she knows that and feels bad enough about it already. However i do believe this should be reduced to a week ban.

I'm gonna make this as quick as possible. 1, you cannot see staff chat, and you do not know if and how she's been punished. She has been slayed warned, etc. RDM 4 times is a week ban, and while I don't know why she didn't serve the week ban, she did serve the 24 hour. Her actions were NOT ignored, and she had many chances to stop. Even if they were, she should know not to be breaking the rules as she not only knows the rules, she has also seen many times them be enforced "I never wanted to bring up the fact that staff have broken the same rules they are supposed to follow" could you PLEASE provide evidence? I myself have accidentally rdm'ed once or twice, but that is about it. I'm not gonna ban myself when I have people to deal with. "Ive seen many times in the past of people being unbanned from a perma ban due to "Changing" and there past offense ignored" almost always they are unbanned due to the fact that the ban was old, or that we actually know they changed, and are better now. If they happen to break the rules again, they will be immediately permabanned again. "How can she get better are controlling her temper if yall just enabled the behavior" again, we need proof of this. Nothing can be done if no proof is given. We are NOT telling phan to take a break because she plays a lot, we are telling her that because she gets angered over small things, which leads to her being rude to other players (just like in the video august showed). "Telling someone to kill themselves is not listed as something thats not tolerated just something thats punished. racism is the only one thats listed in red if i recall correctly." I do not see your point. In every dinks server telling someone to kill themselves has been something that is punished more harshly than other harassment rules. This is a VERY known thing. Also, suicide is listed under the "Limit and/or avoid sensitive topics" rule, and while I agree it should be more stated, it is still there and is more severely punished. "they are only guides and we dont have to follow them or so thats how i understand what you are saying." That is not what laced said. The guidelines are to guide staff on how to deal with situations as he said, but if the rule breaking is more severe then punishments can be escalated faster (ex: someone says a slur once, they will be gagged/muted, but if they spam that slur, chances are they are going to get banned). This is why in many of the guidelines it says "ban based on severity of situation." "Then there is no bases for admin abuse when it comes to bans, they can just claim that they thought it was severe enough to them, as it would be going off the opinion of a mod to mod bases and not a set guide of rules." This is not true. Not only is that mod/admin going to have to show proof if that player makes an unban/staff abuse report, they still have to follow the guidelines and rules if it is not severe enough. "harassment is not pixel hunting in PH so there should be no opinion to opinion bases here" I do not see how this matters. The guidelines and rules is something everyone, staff included, have to follow. NO one is twisted the rules and punishments. Phan broke multiple rules and her ban was escalated to a permaban.

Where are the bans, if you read my last comment you would vary much know thats mainly what i mean. So its a fact that if they were ban worthy the bans went ignored, fault of you staff alone. Being listed does not make this go to a perma ban it goes to a week ban. she was not punished for the past week ban because false and norm agreed. Its strange she would go from One ban to a week ban for ghosting that was proven false. to that being gone to now actually breaking a rule and it going straight past the week ban she should be getting. You can keep trying to justify it all you want but its it a over step.
Carson you yourself have RDMed me multiple times not just a few, and thats not counting the others to other people, but i never record so i dont have it as its not a gun rdm so fair enough. prolly only got 1 for levi, Norms RDMs towards me were at the start when i first started playing and did not know the rules. Slayed warned ect... for what exactly the RDMs that happened ages ago that have yet to happen to randoms since? Warnings mean nothing if you choose not to punish for the act. Warnings then punishment then ban is again in the rules that yall choose to follow when you feel like it. NOT GONNA BAN MYSELF WHEN I GOT PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH... then dont rdm.
Phantom broke multiple rules as yall say but you never punished for them as in a ban. you failed to punish and are now taking it out on this issue, the rules never stated that Saying to kill yourself is a huge offense as it would be in the TELLING PLAYERS TO DO INAPPROPRIATE THINGS. Its not listed as a no tolerance thing like racism is specifically pointed out to be. This is again yall twisting the rules to your liking. If you want it to be punished like you say then it needs to be in the rules. and as far as what i said about yall doing as you please regarding going around punishments its vary much true, and vary clearly implied by his statement. and yes it is opinion to opinion base, as i pointed out this case is not severe as what you see in the video is all that happened nothing more nothing less, rules state its not a no tolerance thing either.
Limit suicide talks does not mean no suicide talsk so that rule is pointless to bring up and was not broken. the only rule here broken is harassment. Of which again is not listed as a non tolerance issue, regardless if its known or not its still not part of the rules, change it if you dont like it, but if you as you say are all supposed to follow the rules then follow them.
ill keep saying it regardless if you think it wasnt, You all ignored and refused to give the proper punishments when it happend in the past. You supposedly gave a warning, and slays but no bans meaning what exactly... my guess not enough for a ban or else yall would have done so by now, as you were not against banning her for ghosting which she never actually did. again the guidelines state if she had been warned like you say, then she is again only at a week ban. But yall continue to defend a unjust ban, proving yall dont care about following the guidelines yall expect everyone else to follow. You are taking things done in the past that if they happened as you said, should be ban worthy but chose not to punish for it and drag it into this making it worse. You already chose not to do anything about it then and now are backtracking on it. Punish it when it happens not weeks later, or months later. Im on when phantom is on, i know how she acts, and i know who gets the blunt of it and that being me and i dont really care as its a back and fourth like we all once had.
Follow the guideline or dont, dont be a hypocrite and claim to be following them when you are clearly not.

[chelllman]

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Where are the bans, if you read my last comment you would vary much know thats mainly what i mean. So its a fact that if they were ban worthy the bans went ignored, fault of you staff alone. Being listed does not make this go to a perma ban it goes to a week ban. she was not punished for the past week ban because false and norm agreed. Its strange she would go from One ban to a week ban for ghosting that was proven false. to that being gone to now actually breaking a rule and it going straight past the week ban she should be getting. You can keep trying to justify it all you want but its it a over step.

Carson you yourself have RDMed me multiple times not just a few, and thats not counting the others to other people, but i never record so i dont have it as its not a gun rdm so fair enough. prolly only got 1 for levi, Norms RDMs towards me were at the start when i first started playing and did not know the rules. Slayed warned ect... for what exactly the RDMs that happened ages ago that have yet to happen to randoms since? Warnings mean nothing if you choose not to punish for the act. Warnings then punishment then ban is again in the rules that yall choose to follow when you feel like it. NOT GONNA BAN MYSELF WHEN I GOT PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH... then dont rdm.

-snip-

Everyone, please snip your replies so we don't see giant (unformatted as well) walls of text that are a pain in the butt to read.

When it comes to RDM, RDM was quite common before Nuru put her foot down about it last year.  Since then, I've seen a significant reduction in RDM from both staff and players.  RDM prior to this probably shouldn't be considered because everyone was doing it (it was hard to get through a single round without 2+ people getting RDM'd back then).  If staff are RDMing now, then I see the problem.

As Laced said, the murder rules are not inflexible.  Phantom was given a week ban (I think based off murderbans) for RDM it seems with the next being permanent.  Let's ignore this for now though.

Just this month, Phantom told someone to commit suicide and told another player "Fuck you I hope you rip your toenail out and it hurts".  If an admin determines someone's harassment to be toxic enough, they can skip the guidelines.  Murder isn't my server.  If Phantom is unbanned, then additional comments like the ones above should result in a very long ban.

[StrenuousSpider]

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Where are the bans, if you read my last comment you would vary much know thats mainly what i mean. So its a fact that if they were ban worthy the bans went ignored, fault of you staff alone. Being listed does not make this go to a perma ban it goes to a week ban. she was not punished for the past week ban because false and norm agreed. Its strange she would go from One ban to a week ban for ghosting that was proven false. to that being gone to now actually breaking a rule and it going straight past the week ban she should be getting. You can keep trying to justify it all you want but its it a over step.

Carson you yourself have RDMed me multiple times not just a few, and thats not counting the others to other people, but i never record so i dont have it as its not a gun rdm so fair enough. prolly only got 1 for levi, Norms RDMs towards me were at the start when i first started playing and did not know the rules. Slayed warned ect... for what exactly the RDMs that happened ages ago that have yet to happen to randoms since? Warnings mean nothing if you choose not to punish for the act. Warnings then punishment then ban is again in the rules that yall choose to follow when you feel like it. NOT GONNA BAN MYSELF WHEN I GOT PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH... then dont rdm.

-snip-

Everyone, please snip your replies so we don't see giant (unformatted as well) walls of text that are a pain in the butt to read.

When it comes to RDM, RDM was quite common before Nuru put her foot down about it last year.  Since then, I've seen a significant reduction in RDM from both staff and players.  RDM prior to this probably shouldn't be considered because everyone was doing it (it was hard to get through a single round without 2+ people getting RDM'd back then).  If staff are RDMing now, then I see the problem.

As Laced said, the murder rules are not inflexible.  Phantom was given a week ban (I think based off murderbans) for RDM it seems with the next being permanent.  Let's ignore this for now though.

Just this month, Phantom told someone to commit suicide and told another player "Fuck you I hope you rip your toenail out and it hurts".  If an admin determines someone's harassment to be toxic enough, they can skip the guidelines.  Murder isn't my server.  If Phantom is unbanned, then additional comments like the ones above should result in a very long ban.

It was a Day ban and this can be looked up. Suicide yes as thats the issue at hand here. If no warnings or ban were given for the Toenail line again thats on staff for letting it slide without communicating or doing anything about it. she cant look to improve if its not brought up, this kill yourself line if the first its been brought up. But the thing is that would go to Warning 1 of which is 2 warnings before a punishment. 2 punishments before a perma ban. Hell you even once said this.
"Thanks for the report." "according to the staff guidelines, the protocol for telling someone to kill themself is: 1. Round mute/gag + warning 2. Kick 3. Permanent ban".

In neither the Murder Rules or The rules you said in another thread means this is a perma ban, even in your wrong variant of the rules you posted just 2 months ago. This month with the two rule breaks you all have managed to list so far still only leads into a week ban at most.

Using anything older then whats happened just recently would just be again unfair. If they were allowed to be let off the hook then they should stay that way for those cases.

These are the rules of the server, the rules are quite clear for the most part. Severity is again just yall using things that were already let go without issue, with yall again backtracking to make this much larger then it needs to be, because you have no bases for this other then to bring in old stuff that yall already let go and decided to do nothing about.

[§9ViolitheThePhantomFemdogX3]

@chelllman The comment about the toenail was just something random I said, if you were on more often you were here weirder things being said but it's all jokes, no one takes offense, and we keep it moving. If it was that serious then why was it never brought up to me? There wasn't any malice in my voice and I was laughing while saying it.But I agree it was a little over the top and it never said it again. The other comment...was me coming back from being afk in a bad mood, not excusing for the terrible I said.

I wanted to bring up this comment "Phantom was given a week ban (I think based off murderbans) for RDM it seems with the next being permanent.  Let's ignore this for now though." I was only given a 1-day ban, they other ban was an unfair ban that was lifted after Norm looked more into it.

[chelllman]

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Where are the bans, if you read my last comment you would vary much know thats mainly what i mean. So its a fact that if they were ban worthy the bans went ignored, fault of you staff alone. Being listed does not make this go to a perma ban it goes to a week ban. she was not punished for the past week ban because false and norm agreed. Its strange she would go from One ban to a week ban for ghosting that was proven false. to that being gone to now actually breaking a rule and it going straight past the week ban she should be getting. You can keep trying to justify it all you want but its it a over step.

Carson you yourself have RDMed me multiple times not just a few, and thats not counting the others to other people, but i never record so i dont have it as its not a gun rdm so fair enough. prolly only got 1 for levi, Norms RDMs towards me were at the start when i first started playing and did not know the rules. Slayed warned ect... for what exactly the RDMs that happened ages ago that have yet to happen to randoms since? Warnings mean nothing if you choose not to punish for the act. Warnings then punishment then ban is again in the rules that yall choose to follow when you feel like it. NOT GONNA BAN MYSELF WHEN I GOT PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH... then dont rdm.

-snip-

-snip-

It was a Day ban and this can be looked up. Suicide yes as thats the issue at hand here. If no warnings or ban were given for the Toenail line again thats on staff for letting it slide without communicating or doing anything about it. she cant look to improve if its not brought up, this kill yourself line if the first its been brought up. But the thing is that would go to Warning 1 of which is 2 warnings before a punishment. 2 punishments before a perma ban. Hell you even once said this.
"Thanks for the report." "according to the staff guidelines, the protocol for telling someone to kill themself is: 1. Round mute/gag + warning 2. Kick 3. Permanent ban".

In neither the Murder Rules or The rules you said in another thread means this is a perma ban, even in your wrong variant of the rules you posted just 2 months ago. This month with the two rule breaks you all have managed to list so far still only leads into a week ban at most.

Using anything older then whats happened just recently would just be again unfair. If they were allowed to be let off the hook then they should stay that way for those cases.

These are the rules of the server, the rules are quite clear for the most part. Severity is again just yall using things that were already let go without issue, with yall again backtracking to make this much larger then it needs to be, because you have no bases for this other then to bring in old stuff that yall already let go and decided to do nothing about.

The rule you mentioned is for PH, not Murder.  Additionally, that rule is only used in isolation.  Let me give you an example, if someone comes on to PH, says the N word two times, then tells someone to kill themself, they will most likely receive a ban despite not reaching a ban in the racism/threats categories themselves.  Again, admins/mods can do this because players in the past like to skirt the ban thresholds for multiple offenses.

"In neither the Murder Rules or The rules you said in another thread means this is a perma ban, even in your wrong variant of the rules you posted just 2 months ago."
What?

As for the toenail comment, I literally got that from the Murder discord watchlist stating a warning was given for being overly aggressive and saying that to a player.  I'm just going off what I read.

[StrenuousSpider]

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Where are the bans, if you read my last comment you would vary much know thats mainly what i mean. So its a fact that if they were ban worthy the bans went ignored, fault of you staff alone. Being listed does not make this go to a perma ban it goes to a week ban. she was not punished for the past week ban because false and norm agreed. Its strange she would go from One ban to a week ban for ghosting that was proven false. to that being gone to now actually breaking a rule and it going straight past the week ban she should be getting. You can keep trying to justify it all you want but its it a over step.

Carson you yourself have RDMed me multiple times not just a few, and thats not counting the others to other people, but i never record so i dont have it as its not a gun rdm so fair enough. prolly only got 1 for levi, Norms RDMs towards me were at the start when i first started playing and did not know the rules. Slayed warned ect... for what exactly the RDMs that happened ages ago that have yet to happen to randoms since? Warnings mean nothing if you choose not to punish for the act. Warnings then punishment then ban is again in the rules that yall choose to follow when you feel like it. NOT GONNA BAN MYSELF WHEN I GOT PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH... then dont rdm.

-snip-

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It was a Day ban and this can be looked up. Suicide yes as thats the issue at hand here. If no warnings or ban were given for the Toenail line again thats on staff for letting it slide without communicating or doing anything about it. she cant look to improve if its not brought up, this kill yourself line if the first its been brought up. But the thing is that would go to Warning 1 of which is 2 warnings before a punishment. 2 punishments before a perma ban. Hell you even once said this.
"Thanks for the report." "according to the staff guidelines, the protocol for telling someone to kill themself is: 1. Round mute/gag + warning 2. Kick 3. Permanent ban".

In neither the Murder Rules or The rules you said in another thread means this is a perma ban, even in your wrong variant of the rules you posted just 2 months ago. This month with the two rule breaks you all have managed to list so far still only leads into a week ban at most.

Using anything older then whats happened just recently would just be again unfair. If they were allowed to be let off the hook then they should stay that way for those cases.

These are the rules of the server, the rules are quite clear for the most part. Severity is again just yall using things that were already let go without issue, with yall again backtracking to make this much larger then it needs to be, because you have no bases for this other then to bring in old stuff that yall already let go and decided to do nothing about.

The rule you mentioned is for PH, not Murder.  Additionally, that rule is only used in isolation.  Let me give you an example, if someone comes on to PH, says the N word two times, then tells someone to kill themself, they will most likely receive a ban despite not reaching a ban in the racism/threats categories themselves.  Again, admins/mods can do this because players in the past like to skirt the ban thresholds for multiple offenses.

"In neither the Murder Rules or The rules you said in another thread means this is a perma ban, even in your wrong variant of the rules you posted just 2 months ago."
What?

As for the toenail comment, I literally got that from the Murder discord watchlist stating a warning was given for being overly aggressive and saying that to a player.  I'm just going off what I read.

Regarding the toenail fair enough i suppose. as for the rule, its strange PHs would be more strict then Murder, however i brought it up to make the point that even with a stricter set of rules with the admin of those rules saying thats how it should go its not at a perma ban yet. so we agree the murder rules should be taken as fact and that fact is its not quite at a perma ban, even with the first "warning".

as for the rule, Racism at least for murder is in the same category as Harassment, i know these rules fairly well as i planned to be staff at one point. so they are not separate here. And i understand what you mean by if you get 2 bans for this then a 3rd would still count even if its from another rule broken. never disagreed with this. in fact ive mentioned it several times now that phantom has one legit ban that is about RDM, if she had another is say exploiting and then got this yes it would be a perma.

however over all, this is only her second legit ban. If you mean getting a warning for RDM somehow transfers over to say mic spam and now are just left with a punishment the second they do it, then thats just down right disgusting and leaves no room correction of ones own actions. Bans moving over is something that makes sense, the punishments themselves. Now if its a obvious moving from rule to rule just to cause havoc then that would also makes sense and id suggest making that a rule of itself so its known, Here on murder its part of the trolling rule and rightfully so, if its something that simply done from time to time then thats a different thing all together.

[August]

Jesus mother of god, snip your posts and use less words. TLDR your shit or something, PLEASE. This is hell.


Anyway, I stand by my original post. As Laced said very well, the guidelines in the rules are exactly that, guidelines. They’re good for understanding a general idea of punishments, but they can be escalated, skipped, or even extended depending on severity. They are NOT an exact formula. 

I do still believe you need time away, no matter if it’s voluntary or involuntary. You’re allowing your personal demons to come into the server in a bad way, and though I support you in that battle, we cannot allow others to be on the receiving end and take those bullets.


Edit: Also, if you have any proof at all about what you claimed about Leviathan, please provide it as requested above. Either via Norm or ModMail in discord.