King Tiger Ace Fasda22

**Seadub** · 06-15-2017, 08:03 PM

Offender's Name: King Tiger Ace Fasda22

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:27292801

Offender's Rank: Moderator

What They Did: There was an AFK player, Leroy62. There was another player (Name unknown) who told me to kill them. Also known as a KOS. I then proceeded to push Leroy62 off of a ledge to his death, with the KOS-caller's help (Again, I can not remember his name). This took place before overtime. I am aware of the rule that AFKs should not be killed until overtime. However, there is also the fact that players have the right to kill KOSed players. Whether the KOS was justified or not is irrelevant, at least in my case. So here we have two rules, one being that players should not kill AFK players before overtime, and the other that innocent players have the right to kill players if they are KOSed. I received a slay for this. I believe this slay is not justified because I was following the custom that as an innocent, I possess the ability to kill a player who is KOSed, regardless of any preexisting conditions such as being AFK.

And to counter the argument that I "should have known he was obviously AFK," well, first of all, he may have been in the traitor's shop menu, in the pointshop, maybe reading the rules list, he could have been grabbing a greek yogurt from his miniature fridge next to his computer desk, he could have been scratching his nutsack for a couple minutes, there's endless explanations. But second of all, it just doesn't matter. I was following through on a KOS on this player.

I have no video proof or anything, but King Tiger told me if I describe in detail what happened on the forums then it would be OK.

Also, I know I don't need to say this because there's no way it would happen anyway, but I don't need King Tiger punished or anything. I just want the dispute settled. Thanks.

When They Did It: ~8:45 pm EST 06/15/17

**The Dutch Problem** · 06-15-2017, 08:16 PM

Aye, I asked him to bring it to the forums. I myself didnt see any need for screenshots as im confirming this event right off the bat.

However, I only slayed you because if he had been moving even if he just walked one step by himself, then i wouldnt have considered him AFK. But he hadn't moved the entire round being very obviously AFK. While the arguement can indeed be made that the person who "Called this KOS" also should've been punished, you also forget that you guys pushed him a good 10 meters. Even if he was faking AFK he'd have moved. This again shows he was AFK and I then acted on what i thought was proper action.

Bright Osemwegie · 06-15-2017, 08:18 PM

You don't need to act on KOSes that are unjustified or seem suspicious either. Acting on blatantly false KOSes are tantamount to RDM. I think the person that called the KOS should've been the one slain. You did still contribute to an RDM though, so I think the slay was in the right.

**DC.Zephyr** · (This post was last modified: 06-15-2017, 08:21 PM by DC.Zephyr.)

From what I can determine based on the evidence you supplied. You knew he was AFK and you still followed said KOS; I lump that in with RDM. sorry my man

**Seadub** · (This post was last modified: 06-15-2017, 08:27 PM by Seadub.)

1) I had no way to know he was AFK the entire round, for all anyone is concerned he could have gone AFK a second before the KOS was called.

2) I do not NEED to act on suspicious KOSes, you're right. But there is no fault on me punishment-wise for doing do.

3) It isn't like we took a good 60 seconds to push him, I pushed 2 or 3 times and used a discombobulator centered in a way to only move him in the direction I wanted him to go. The whole thing was actually relatively quite a quick interaction.

**Generally_Suspicious** · 06-15-2017, 11:16 PM

I literally just pulled a "pretend to be afk" and stabbed @"Setro" just last night.

Just want to weigh in that is a strategy people pull.
I too follow kos' called.

Granted there is a huge difference between us vet players and this guest.
We know spawns and we know if you're "afk" in a corner or actually afk where you spawned in and haven't moved yet.
Now in reality they slay is already served and this is kind of not going to get much done here.
But I could understand him following a kos; it's kind of just what you do.

**Dildo Shwaggins** · 06-15-2017, 11:34 PM

Following an obviously false KOS I feel is enough for a slay. I'd say it's RDM because it's really close to following a KOS on a known proven- yeah there is a KOS, but it's one without valid reason.

HiddenBlade · 06-16-2017, 01:29 AM

I'm with @"SusAF" on this one as this hits a grey area. I pretended to play afk on Dolls earlier when a detective walked up to me as soon as the round started to test or kos me and he left me alone thinking I was AFK when in actuality, my scoreboard glitched so I was letting my T buds know I was gonna go guns blazing. Playing AFK to get out of a situation is a tactic that T's can pull which Connar is correct about. This is where a video of any death scenes before this one would come into play so that if a deathscene or two of earlier death(s) can actually determine if he was in the same spot constantly or had indeed moved or not. Though if what you both claim is true and he was indeed afk, then regardless of the KOS the "No killing afks until OT" rule still kicks in and it deserves a slay, however, Connar shouldn't had been the only one punished as he was not the original caller of the KOS.

**The Dutch Problem** · 06-16-2017, 09:28 AM

As a response to Hidden and Sus, would you still pretend to be AFK when you hear that 2 induviuals are pushing you to the edge with the intent of killing you (from what i gathered this intent was said in voice chat making it clear for the person who'd be pretending to be AFK that he's gonna get thrown off). While I was unaware of the KOS at the point of the final push that Connor did (I was dead and I normally have the living muted when im dead, not to mention I was dealing with scrubs).

After I was made aware of the fact that he was KOS'd, I put out my arguement that him not responding to being pushed 10m would you know, show him being AFK. As shown in the OP that he wasnt aware who called it so it could've been a T who called it. While you dont Always have to in some cases its a good idea to ask why the person in question was KOS'd. (The AFK in question was a Traitor himself but they couldn't have known). I allowed for a short arguement but eventually I drew the conclusion that I wasnt going to slay anyone else but the one that did the final push. (And requesting this to be taken to the forums, possibly in a slightly rude way for wich I apoligize)

Bright Osemwegie · 06-16-2017, 09:47 AM

What map was this on as well? There are many maps where pushing someone off the map results in their body being unidentifiable (other than a detective's binoculars). If that was the case, it would be quite suspicious as well. Why push him to a location that you couldn't even check if he was a traitor or not? As well, why did you go through the trouble of pushing him off? The way you describe it says he was a fair distance from any edge, and if a traitor is KOSed it should be assumed that they are very dangerous. At the very least, it was a huge lapse in judgment for you to go the tedious route and shove him off rather than shoot him then and there.

If you want to go the route of "he could've been in the T shop/pointshop/refrigerator", you wait for him to return. Keep an eye on the bloke and kill him if you see him moving. If I board a plane to Egypt in the middle of my traitor round, am I not AFK? Regardless of his traitor status, he was AFK and no reason was given for the KOS. You should've waited until overtime, especially since he showed no signs of defending himself even after he was in the process of being harmed. He would've been moved to spectate anyways